At the risk of committing heresy, Rag's one true failing is the SE headphone out. Blame the summing circuit. First time I plugged my 7XXs in, I thought the cans were defective. Comparing Audeze balanced/SE cabling revealed the performance discrepancy. Bottom line, don't judge ¼" plug phones by their performance w/Rag. The Fostex TH-X00s are a better match w/Rag.
Well, we've had this discussion over Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil on balanced vs SE outs and Mike's reaction was unequivocal:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2325#post_12544514
Originally Posted by Baldr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nothing is crippled!!! I took my best shot at both!! I really do not know where these SE is crippled rumors come from, but they are pure, unadulterated, 100% bullschiit!!!
You're talking DACs vs. a power amp. In the Gumby/Ygg, the exact same signal is going to both SE and balanced outputs. So, conceptually, results should be identical. Or at least so close that people will have to talk themselves into hearing a difference. Ragnarok is a true balanced amp, which means that the channels cannot be comingled at any point; as happens with the shared ground of the typical headphone jack. The "solution" is the summing circuit, whose deleterious effect is all too plain. If you are referring to the pre-amp-type outputs (which can be used to feed a subwoofer or another amp) on the back of the Rag, any difference should indeed be slight and perhaps unnoticeable.
You're talking DACs vs. a power amp. In the Gumby/Ygg, the exact same signal is going to both SE and balanced outputs. So, conceptually, results should be identical. Or at least so close that people will have to talk themselves into hearing a difference. Ragnarok is a true balanced amp, which means that the channels cannot be comingled at any point; as happens with the shared ground of the typical headphone jack. The "solution" is the summing circuit, whose deleterious effect is all too plain.
Beginning to wonder if you aren't yankin' my chain. You are certainly arguing theory - summing should make no difference - vs. reality - the SE headphone output on the Rag is sonically compromised. And just like when a car tangles with a train, the train always wins. Please consider, among other factors, the differences between dealing with a small "informational" signal as opposed to 60wpc. Parse the technicalities all you want, you are unlikely to convince me that I have not heard what I have in fact heard.
Beginning to wonder if you aren't yankin' my chain. You are certainly arguing theory - summing should make no difference - vs. reality - the SE headphone output on the Rag is sonically compromised. And just like when a car tangles with a train, the train always wins. Please consider, among other factors, the differences between dealing with a small "informational" signal as opposed to 60wpc. Parse the technicalities all you want, you are unlikely to convince me that I have not heard what I have in fact heard.
What I'm saying is Gungnir and Yggdrasil also use summing. From what you wrote above, it seemed to me as if you had implied differently. For both DACs there are some reports from users that the SE outputs are compromised, vigorously denied by Jason and Mike as well as by other users (who haven't experienced SE outs as sonically compromised).
I find it curious to hear similar arguments around Ragnarok. (Though I'm not trying to convince you of anything in particular.)
One aspect that was raised regarding the Gungnir/Yggdrasil SE vs balanced outs: true balanced outputs will be +3dB greater than SE, so I'm wondering if maybe this is something happening with the Ragnarok as well...
I think we are losing perspective. The SE output of the Rag is good. It is not as good as the balanced output. This is not surprising as this is designed as a balanced amplifier from input to output.
The output impedance is less than 0.1ohm balanced versus 3.3ohms for the SE. This will have some effect on the sound of the amplifier. That plus the much higher output and hence dynamic capability likely make up the reason for the perceived sound quality difference. The AKG k7xx has a 62 ohm impedance and a not very high power capability. This combination probably causes much of the issues I experienced with the pairing.
I am actually in love with the Rag and my HD700 connected balanced. Lately, it seems like the Rag had increased in detail. But that is probably because I am listening at lower levels and not reaching the compression point of the HD700 transducers. The detail and control of the Rag is amazing. It is making me listen to old music in a new way. Source music with greater dynamic range sounds better. Of course this is a real challenge to find new music that is not in the loudness war.
Finally ordered a Ragnarok to power my LS50s and LCD-X. It will be replacing an Axiom II passive preamp and a Parasound A23, which I use now to power the LS50s. I didn't have many complaints with the A23 but it is too large for a desktop setup and I needed to place it about 20 feet from the preamp. Looking forward to the Ragnarok. Any thoughts on using the preamp outputs to sub versus running sub in parallel off speaker outputs?
Finally ordered a Ragnarok to power my LS50s and LCD-X. It will be replacing an Axiom II passive preamp and a Parasound A23, which I use now to power the LS50s. I didn't have many complaints with the A23 but it is too large for a desktop setup and I needed to place it about 20 feet from the preamp. Looking forward to the Ragnarok. Any thoughts on using the preamp outputs to sub versus running sub in parallel off speaker outputs?
Finally ordered a Ragnarok to power my LS50s and LCD-X. It will be replacing an Axiom II passive preamp and a Parasound A23, which I use now to power the LS50s. I didn't have many complaints with the A23 but it is too large for a desktop setup and I needed to place it about 20 feet from the preamp. Looking forward to the Ragnarok. Any thoughts on using the preamp outputs to sub versus running sub in parallel off speaker outputs?
I have the Rok powering my LS50 and I can tell you that my headphones listening time had been considerably reduced! And IME, the changes in my system e.g. I now have a music transport (Soundaware D100Pro) are more noticeable in my LS50 than any of my headphones. I can just imagine what magic your Raggy combo can do with the LS50!
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LOL
