[rollinbr]

Ok. You got my curiosity up. What is a Rag 1.5?

Here is what I found on the SBAF site on August 21, 2017.

"The Ragnarok was changed over a year ago to version 1.5. At that time, many of the passive components changed from through hole to surface mount. The 1.5 revision made the Ragnarok substantially easier to assemble and more reliable. The space efficiency we realized from the SMD switch removed the need for the analog or power daughter boards. The power ratings and sound signature were unchanged from the original version."

 

[bagwell359]

Hey guys .... If I'm going balanced on the rag I need to be fully balanced all the way through the chain right? I have the rag a yggy so I cant use single ended from dac to amp and then balanced at the headphone - just making sure.

No, not so. I would recommend it for better noise rejection, but go ahead, nothing will go wrong.

 

[magiccabbage]

No, not so. I would recommend it for better noise rejection, but go ahead, nothing will go wrong.

So I can go yggy - rca - rag2 - balanced lcdxc ...... and it wont damage the amp. Will it have the full balanced power using the rcas? Thanks for the reply.

 

[bagwell359]

So I can go yggy - rca - rag2 - balanced lcdxc ...... and it wont damage the amp. Will it have the full balanced power using the rcas? Thanks for the reply.

No effect on power, but I ditched SE cables over 20 years ago. SE cables in a heavy RFI area, with radon, and concrete and stone all over - tend to sound different from each other - and the encourages silly spending. Silly because putting them on a concrete floor vs hanging in air, or different env yield different findings. OTOH balanced dont sound much different from each other, and you get better noise rejection.

 

[magiccabbage]

No effect on power, but I ditched SE cables over 20 years ago. SE cables in a heavy RFI area, with radon, and concrete and stone all over - tend to sound different from each other - and the encourages silly spending. Silly because putting them on a concrete floor vs hanging in air, or different env yield different findings. OTOH balanced dont sound much different from each other, and you get better noise rejection.

Cheers for the help.

 

[magiccabbage]

No effect on power, but I ditched SE cables over 20 years ago. SE cables in a heavy RFI area, with radon, and concrete and stone all over - tend to sound different from each other - and the encourages silly spending. Silly because putting them on a concrete floor vs hanging in air, or different env yield different findings. OTOH balanced dont sound much different from each other, and you get better noise rejection.

Hey one question for you. If I go balanced from the dac to the rag and then single ended to the headphone will I get the benefit of extra power?

 

[bagwell359]

Hey one question for you. If I go balanced from the dac to the rag and then single ended to the headphone will I get the benefit of extra power?

The Rag puts out a lot less power into SE than XLR. Don’t do it.

EDIT:

For Rag 2:

24 wpc @ 32 ohms XLR; 6 wpc @ 32 ohms SE; Gain 2, 8, 25 in XLR, 1, 4, 12.5 in SE. No published stat on output impedance.

For Rag 1:

15 wpc @ 32 ohms into XLR; 3 wpc SE. So that's like ~7.5 db more. Also, the output impedance is ideal out of the XLR (.1) and higher (for SS) 3.3 out of the SE. The damping factor must also be better out of the XLR.

Advice: I have never heard any headphone sound better on Gain 3 than 2 on either 1 or 2. Gain 1 seems like there is a missing gain stage so the top and bottom are rolled off, and the sense of dynamic impact is reduced, giving a very pure crystalline quality to its sound, sort of like a Class A pre-amp run passive. If you want to concentrate on the inner details of a singer or other mid stuff- useful at times. But 99% of my time besides when testing is Gain 2, none at Gain 3. Gain has the dynamic punch with serious detail and overtone richness. Gain 3 is brute force, probably strapped Class AB sound reserved for speakers IMO.

 

[magiccabbage]

The Rag puts out a lot less power into SE than XLR. Don’t do it.

EDIT:

For Rag 2:

24 wpc @ 32 ohms XLR; 6 wpc @ 32 ohms SE; Gain 2, 8, 25 in XLR, 1, 4, 12.5 in SE. No published stat on output impedance.

For Rag 1:

15 wpc @ 32 ohms into XLR; 3 wpc SE. So that's like ~7.5 db more. Also, the output impedance is ideal out of the XLR (.1) and higher (for SS) 3.3 out of the SE. The damping factor must also be better out of the XLR.

Advice: I have never heard any headphone sound better on Gain 3 than 2 on either 1 or 2. Gain 1 seems like there is a missing gain stage so the top and bottom are rolled off, and the sense of dynamic impact is reduced, giving a very pure crystalline quality to its sound, sort of like a Class A pre-amp run passive. If you want to concentrate on the inner details of a singer or other mid stuff- useful at times. But 99% of my time besides when testing is Gain 2, none at Gain 3. Gain has the dynamic punch with serious detail and overtone richness. Gain 3 is brute force, probably strapped Class AB sound reserved for speakers IMO.

Cheers for the reply. You heard the hifiman Arya with the Rag by any chance?

I wonder if the Arya sounds thin with the Ragnarok. I'm half thinking of buying one 2nd hand.

 

[Ripper2860]

Arya balanced with Rag 1 sound wonderful!! I would certainly not call it 'thin' by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[bagwell359]

Cheers for the reply. You heard the hifiman Arya with the Rag by any chance?

I wonder if the Arya sounds thin with the Ragnarok. I'm half thinking of buying one 2nd hand.

All 3. I do like the 3 the best. It needs EQ to tame the treble, no pad change, amp, etc. will do the job IMO. It's exciting and incisive, but the 6 SE if you have the juice is basically in the same class - but quite different at less dollars, and massaged the way Iike it, then better.

 

[bagwell359]

Arya balanced with Rag 1 sound wonderful!! I would certainly not call it 'thin' by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, not thin, just EQ down at 4-5k, 8k narrow, 12.5k; and up 1.5-2.3k and 9.75k narrow - only a parametric will serve.

 

[magiccabbage]

All 3. I do like the 3 the best. It needs EQ to tame the treble, no pad change, amp, etc. will do the job IMO. It's exciting and incisive, but the 6 SE if you have the juice is basically in the same class - but quite different at less dollars, and massaged the way Iike it, then better.

Hey. Cheers again. I just have this fear that they will be a flop with the Rag like the hd800 was. The difference between the hd800 on wa5 vs Rag is crazy.

I suppose I'm hoping that they will have the aforementioned soundstage of the hd800 and some of the thicknesses and low end of the LCD X.

 

[bagwell359]

Hey. Cheers again. I just have this fear that they will be a flop with the Rag like the hd800 was. The difference between the hd800 on wa5 vs Rag is crazy.

I suppose I'm hoping that they will have the aforementioned soundstage of the hd800 and some of the thicknesses and low end of the LCD X.

It’s a different story. OTL amps just have a way with high impedance headphones - at least the few I have tried.

Every planar I know loves SS power and yes some hybrid tubes as long as they are made to drive low impedance cans.

The Arya does have a big soundstage but it doesn’t place things as precisely as the 800. The Arya doesn’t have a dense bass. People who don’t think planar bass is a match point to the long cup HFM’s. The OG HE-6 6 screw and OG LCD-4 blows away overblown +8 db Fostex 900 mk 2 bass and Arya bass IMO for a. Musical honesty and b. Major impact. The LCD X is a bit more in the middle ground IMO. You’ll need to make that call but it’s guttier than the Arya.

 

[superultramega]

Initial and naive (contrarian?) Ragnarok 2 Fully Loaded impressions

-MAIN reaction: This amp doesn't create as much space around instruments or as beautiful a presentation (especially with vocals and acoustic instruments) as my tube amp. Icon Audio 40MkIV, MSRP ~$4000. Is this an obvious observation? Should I have known this before buying the Ragnarok? Are there other SS integrated amps in the $2-3k range that have a more tube-like, pretty (to my mind) sound?

Other reactions:
-Limited use so far, 6 hours with headphones and 12 hours with speakers. Is is possible the sound will change as I log more hours?
-Singers can sound separate from the music/band. Would this be called a forward presentation?
-Bass seems boosted in the higher bass region. Mainly an issue with my speakers, headphones less of an issue.
-Internal DAC imperceptible differences compared to Bluesound Node DAC. Disappointing, and somewhat defeats the idea of a single box integrated.
-Phono source more detailed, generally better sounding than digital source. Maybe my TT is better than the Bluesound Node streamer. But it could also be the phono (Mani?) card is better than the Multibit card.

Speakers: Proac D Two standmounts
TT: Thorens TD415Mkii w/ AT VM95SH

 

[Rensek]

Hi,

I'd let Ragnarok play for a few days, whether you are in the room or not, hps or speakers should be fine..

I have found that I have to adjust my speakers to the room/amplifier/dac. Example if I'm using ragnarok 2 as an amp for say my Zu Omen DW2 s, I wont have the same exact speaker placement when I try a single vidar, or dual gjallarhorns. Playing with speaker placement will likely change your separation/imaging.

Also, good tubes amps are, well, really good..

I never feel like the lead singer is far away from the band, just a step or two in front..


What headphones are you using. Balanced or Single Ended?

I found the built in USB dac to be good enough if I needed it, but I preferred any of my separate dacs with Ragnarok 2 over the USB card..

I think the phono card in ragnarok is better then my Mani 1 preamp.

I find Ragnarok to be more polite and refined then my tube HP amp or the MJ3. Very detailed, but definetly not as tube like..

Edit - Is this the tube amp you are using? It has a choke! Looks to be a really quality item..I'm not suprised the presentation is different between Rag 2 and the tube amp, even without price consideration... 2 Tyrs might be a fairer comparison..

https://iconaudio.com/stereo-40-mkiv-integrated-kt88-amplifier-stereo-40-mkiv