Runrunsmithfly
Previously known as ssmith3046
You could stick taller feet underneath it.
Schiit Magni+ and Magni Heretic :: Impressions Thread
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amigastar
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Interesting, haven't thought about that. Thx
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HWB3
1000+ Head-Fier
I picked up a Magni Heresy off of eBay this morning for $85 delivered. The same price that I got my Magni 3+ for back in May. I like that one a lot and I'm looking forward to using the Heresy when it comes in. It doesn't have to be the latest model for me. Just a good deal. It makes it sound better.
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stuck limo
Formerly with Light Harmonic/LH Labs
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My friend just got a Heresy on the used market on Friday. He used it on Saturday night (with me there) and it died on Sunday morning. Zero power.
The brief amount of time I heard it (both on headphones and as a preamp), I found it very up front, very detailed, powerful, and steely sounding. It had a lot of treble that pushed details very forward but I could tell it was a bit thin sounding and had a very glarey sound to it. Overall, it sounded technically impressive and presented things in a way I hadn't heard before, but it was not very pleasant to listen to.
I believe the SMSL SP200 to sound more natural and relaxed and easier to listen to.
The brief amount of time I heard it (both on headphones and as a preamp), I found it very up front, very detailed, powerful, and steely sounding. It had a lot of treble that pushed details very forward but I could tell it was a bit thin sounding and had a very glarey sound to it. Overall, it sounded technically impressive and presented things in a way I hadn't heard before, but it was not very pleasant to listen to.
I believe the SMSL SP200 to sound more natural and relaxed and easier to listen to.
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HWB3
1000+ Head-Fier
Sorry about your friend's amp. I hope my luck is better.
SchwizzelKick66
100+ Head-Fier
I posted earlier in this thread with my impressions moving from a Hel 2e to a modi+ and Magni Heretic stack. I sold my Hel 2e at that time.
Like some others have said here, the treble on the heretic started to grate on me after a few months. At first it seemed like it was more sparkly and brighter than the Hel, which gave the perception of more detail. After a while however, I started to feel like the highs were a bit too clinical and overly dry. I remembered the Hel having a warmer character to it. I was noticing some fatigue with my hd800s and 560s in that highs which I didn't remember having on the Hel 2e.
Decided to order the Hel 2e again, and on first listen I felt a weird sense of relief. The warmth and smoothness I remembered was back, vs the more clinical and dry presentation of the magni heretic. This comes at the expense of a bit of soundstage, as it feels ever so slightly more narrow on the Hel 2e vs the magni heretic. The low end also feels a bit warmer and not as clinical as the heretic.
I decided to stick with the Hel 2e and sell the stack. While the magni heretic might be more "correct" or "transparent", at least for the headphones I have, I feel like the Hel 2e just sounds more enjoyable. It's a bit warmer, highs are smoother, and it's a bit more intimate. In reality the difference are small, but that extra brightness on the heretic really just started to grate on me and take away from my enjoyment.
I know what I described is no where near tubes, as the Hel 2e is still a solid state amp that is described as neutral everywhere, but I could see how people could prefer tubes to listening on a "regular" amp. For me at least, I think I prefer a bit more warmth.
I listen at low volumes compared to most so I don't even come close to using the power the Hel has on low gain. I think for me, I'll just stick with it. The modi+ and Magni Heretic are no doubt a great value and phenomenal items, but maybe just not for me.
Like some others have said here, the treble on the heretic started to grate on me after a few months. At first it seemed like it was more sparkly and brighter than the Hel, which gave the perception of more detail. After a while however, I started to feel like the highs were a bit too clinical and overly dry. I remembered the Hel having a warmer character to it. I was noticing some fatigue with my hd800s and 560s in that highs which I didn't remember having on the Hel 2e.
Decided to order the Hel 2e again, and on first listen I felt a weird sense of relief. The warmth and smoothness I remembered was back, vs the more clinical and dry presentation of the magni heretic. This comes at the expense of a bit of soundstage, as it feels ever so slightly more narrow on the Hel 2e vs the magni heretic. The low end also feels a bit warmer and not as clinical as the heretic.
I decided to stick with the Hel 2e and sell the stack. While the magni heretic might be more "correct" or "transparent", at least for the headphones I have, I feel like the Hel 2e just sounds more enjoyable. It's a bit warmer, highs are smoother, and it's a bit more intimate. In reality the difference are small, but that extra brightness on the heretic really just started to grate on me and take away from my enjoyment.
I know what I described is no where near tubes, as the Hel 2e is still a solid state amp that is described as neutral everywhere, but I could see how people could prefer tubes to listening on a "regular" amp. For me at least, I think I prefer a bit more warmth.
I listen at low volumes compared to most so I don't even come close to using the power the Hel has on low gain. I think for me, I'll just stick with it. The modi+ and Magni Heretic are no doubt a great value and phenomenal items, but maybe just not for me.
I can appreciate your take somewhat. I have two Hel2e's and I do know this units presentation well. But what you've conveyed here is that you are isolating the Magni from the Modi and attributing all of the issues you're experiencing to just the headphone amp. Which, to be fair, doesn't truly tell us which unit is really the culprit.
What you were hearing surely came from the combination of the two units. Just as with the Hel2e, being that it is a combo unit.
I also own both the Heresy and the Heretic and I can tell you - they don't really add to or color the sound in perceptible ways on their own. Not with what you have described. At least not for me.
I have had them both paired with different DAC's recently. The SMSL D0100 and now the Aune X8 XVIII DAC with a SparkosLabs SS2590 dual pro opamp. These two DAC units, in the end, did more to alter the overall sound than the amplifiers themselves. I've never been a Modi fan... So I am obviously curious about how that unit plays into your experience.
The Heresy and the Heretic though can't really do on its own what you are describing. They shouldn't. They will though be very different from the regular, non-opamp version for sure. Perhaps that amp would have suited you better than the heretical versions.
The decoding of the source, that signal - through a DACs topology surely can be altered or colored just how you describe. The SMSL D0100 and the Aune were very similar in their stock form. But still quite different. However, once I started playing with different opamps, Muse02, SS3602, Burson V6 Vivid and then ultimately the SS2590 - that is where things really changed. So my end result sound comes from the combination of both the Heresy/Heretic & my DAC choice. Not just the headphone amp. I'm not saying an amp cannot do these things... But what you are hearing is surely from both units paired together. Not just the one.
The DAC chips inside the Hel2e and the Modi are the same. But their implementation is not. I almost wish you had the ability to try the Magni with different DACs and then give your impressions. That or try the other Magni... Perhaps the fatiguing elements are moreover a Modi thing and not so much a Magni thing - but it might also be a Magni vs Magni Heresy/Heretic thing. We do know the non heretical plays a bit warmer.
On the Magni/Modi front - You could have easily completed the stack by adding a Loki mini+ which would have helped out in the frequency range of things... But not so much with the staging.
On the other side of that..
We can easily develop our hearing to prefer a signature. You really do get used to it. The Hel2e is a great little combo of things and I use it in one system still, as it plays real nice with the speakers on that system. The other Hel is in use by one of my boys. I truly love how that little unit sounds in certain systems. So trust me, I get it. I'm very used to it. Honestly, I think my quest with other gear on my main rig was probably to recapture much of the Hel2 experience, but expand on it if I could. My soundstage is amazing now. Not so much with the previous DAC. Something I think the Hel2e does very well for what it is... The Lokius keeps those frequency woes in certain recordings in check for me.
I'm certainly glad that you settled on the device that ticks all the boxes for you though.
What you were hearing surely came from the combination of the two units. Just as with the Hel2e, being that it is a combo unit.
I also own both the Heresy and the Heretic and I can tell you - they don't really add to or color the sound in perceptible ways on their own. Not with what you have described. At least not for me.
I have had them both paired with different DAC's recently. The SMSL D0100 and now the Aune X8 XVIII DAC with a SparkosLabs SS2590 dual pro opamp. These two DAC units, in the end, did more to alter the overall sound than the amplifiers themselves. I've never been a Modi fan... So I am obviously curious about how that unit plays into your experience.
The Heresy and the Heretic though can't really do on its own what you are describing. They shouldn't. They will though be very different from the regular, non-opamp version for sure. Perhaps that amp would have suited you better than the heretical versions.
The decoding of the source, that signal - through a DACs topology surely can be altered or colored just how you describe. The SMSL D0100 and the Aune were very similar in their stock form. But still quite different. However, once I started playing with different opamps, Muse02, SS3602, Burson V6 Vivid and then ultimately the SS2590 - that is where things really changed. So my end result sound comes from the combination of both the Heresy/Heretic & my DAC choice. Not just the headphone amp. I'm not saying an amp cannot do these things... But what you are hearing is surely from both units paired together. Not just the one.
The DAC chips inside the Hel2e and the Modi are the same. But their implementation is not. I almost wish you had the ability to try the Magni with different DACs and then give your impressions. That or try the other Magni... Perhaps the fatiguing elements are moreover a Modi thing and not so much a Magni thing - but it might also be a Magni vs Magni Heresy/Heretic thing. We do know the non heretical plays a bit warmer.
On the Magni/Modi front - You could have easily completed the stack by adding a Loki mini+ which would have helped out in the frequency range of things... But not so much with the staging.
On the other side of that..
We can easily develop our hearing to prefer a signature. You really do get used to it. The Hel2e is a great little combo of things and I use it in one system still, as it plays real nice with the speakers on that system. The other Hel is in use by one of my boys. I truly love how that little unit sounds in certain systems. So trust me, I get it. I'm very used to it. Honestly, I think my quest with other gear on my main rig was probably to recapture much of the Hel2 experience, but expand on it if I could. My soundstage is amazing now. Not so much with the previous DAC. Something I think the Hel2e does very well for what it is... The Lokius keeps those frequency woes in certain recordings in check for me.
I'm certainly glad that you settled on the device that ticks all the boxes for you though.
HWB3
1000+ Head-Fier
My Heresy comes tomorrow. I'm going to put it in my Schiit stack of a Loki Mini and a ModiMultibit 2 and give it a try over the weekend. Either the Hersey or Magni 3+ is going to end up being a preamp for my Emotiva BasX A-100 that I moved into my speaker set up. I can still use headphones with it because I have an extension cable that will reach my listening spot.
SchwizzelKick66
100+ Head-Fier
You're right, I wrote that not really considering the contribution the DAC may be making. Luckily, I still have the magni heretic as I sold it last night and haven't shipped it out yet. So I hooked it up to the line out on the Hel 2e and did some comparison testing using my trust HD6xx.
Turns out, it was indeed the Modi+ that was causing most of the difference in sound. The Magni Heretic and Hel 2e sound 95% identical with the magni connected to the Hel and using the dac implementation on the Hel. The Modi+ seems to add a bit of brightness and dryness/harshness in the treble that just isnt there when using the Hel 2e or the magni connected to the Hel.
There is a SLIGHT difference between the Hel 2e and Magni heretic in terms of amplification. The low end on the Hel 2e is ever so slightly warmer. I admit it could be placebo as its difficult to exactly volume match the two. Soundstage wise they are identical, and the rest of the frequency range sounds the same to my ears.
I was always under the impression that the amp stage is what affected sound the most, but at least in this instance it was definitely the Modi+ dac causing the changes in sound that I didn't prefer. Come to think of it, other dac/amp combo units I've tried in the past including the FiiO NewK3 and Soundblaster G6 sounded the same to me as the Hel; it was only the modi/magni stack that ever sounded different. Lends more evidence to the modi+ being the "sound changer" so to speak.
Thanks for the reply as I learned something, and doing the comparison was weirdly fun lol. To me then, the Hel 2e is good enough on its own. Its also nice that it can be used as a dac only and still retain the mic functionality, so I can add an amp later if I want to. Seems to be a better unit for my purposes than the Modi+, granted it is $199 vs the modi at $129.
HWB3
1000+ Head-Fier
My Heresy came today and after a few hours of listening my thought is that it is crisper than my Magni 3+. I'm listening with K702's which could add to that, but my first impression is a good one. More listening with other headphones to come.
Magni+ negative gain mode is grand for sensitive headphones. Jot2’s noise floor is too high.
Agreed, I use my Magni + with IEM and the low gain setting is perfect.
HWB3
1000+ Head-Fier
The Heresy that I bought had issues. Sound would drop out. Have to turn it off and then back on. Today it started a loud hum in the right channel. It's going back. But I did like it and would like to get another one. Let's see how eBay handles this.
schmalgausen
100+ Head-Fier
Anybody noticed that Magni is modular now?
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