[rb2013]

Thanks RB2013. Mine are tested and are a matched pair, I could show you the box although it is a white box and not the original siemens box unfortunately. They are NOS and have the VERY rare "O" getters and Gray electro static shield plates. It is exactly what is shown in the tube museum link and I agree that they are extremely rare and are a true holy grail tube so if anyone is still interested in a bargain or a swap, just PM me, thanks.

You are right, I'm sure those sound better then the later CCa's. I was never to fond of the later silver shield version. Good luck!

 

[snarfarlarkus]

You are right, I'm sure those sound better then the later CCa's. I was never to fond of the later silver shield version. Good luck!

Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube

 

[nykobing]

Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube

There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
 
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
 
 
"If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these..."
 
That is his quote about the rarity of the pinched waists.

 

[PinkLed]

 
There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
 
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
 
 
"If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these..."
 
That is his quote about the rarity of the pinched waists.

+1, I love my white labels, unfortunately if i listen to them too long they start to produce static.
 
Found them a while back on ebay and won a bid for 70$ for the pair, even though they are probably and the end of their life now and didnt last too long, one of the best tubes I ever bought

 

[snarfarlarkus]

There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


"If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these..."

That is his quote about the rarity of the pinched waists.

Thank you! I don't have to get pinched waists but they seem like the real holy grail by most here. There are other tubes that are good such as la radiotechnique e188cc's but those are rare too. I just want to roll something that is a sidegrade or upgrade over my siemens e88cc's.

 

[snarfarlarkus]

Where can i find the white label pq's?

 

[PinkLed]

Where can i find the white label pq's?

You can get them on ebay, mercedesman has yet to disappoint,
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-SWEET-TONE-042-/221459131585?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338ffe2cc1
 
Ive bought from him before, some may say hes pricey, but I just bought these a few weeks ago and have no complaints.
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321418050312
 
Also another great tube that wont break the bank from Amperex and a little more affordable then the white labels. It really depends on what headphones you are pairing them with. I prefer the orange labels with my HD800 to give them more of a bottom end and white lables with my LCD2 to bring out the top end.

 

[snarfarlarkus]

You can get them on ebay, 
mercedesman 
has yet to disappoint,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-SWEET-TONE-042-/221459131585?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338ffe2cc1

Ive bought from him before, some may say hes pricey, but I just bought these a few weeks ago and have no complaints.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321418050312

Also another great tube that wont break the bank from Amperex and a little more affordable then the white labels. It really depends on what headphones you are pairing them with. I prefer the orange labels with my HD800 to give them more of a bottom end and white lables with my LCD2 to bring out the top end.

Thank you so much pink. Would you think these would be considered an upgrade over the siemens e88cc? I know no one can really answer that besides me but i cant afford to buy a tube that sounds worse than my current tubes. I am also using audeze lcd 2's. Cheers

 

[nykobing]

I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3
 
Those are new 1961 Amperex PQ's relabelled as RCA and they offer returns. I haven't heard the Siemens 6922, but on that same Joe's Tube Lore he sort of explains the difference.
 
"So how do the Siemens and Amperex stack up comparatively? Well, to my ears, the Siemens sound just a bit more linear, with just a touch less vibrancy and life and freedom from grain that are the hallmarks of the best Amperexes. The Amperexes sound just a bit more full bodied and lively on top and are a touch more romantic in balance. The Siemens also tend to throw up slightly larger images, the Amperexes slightly smaller, better focused images (but not small - don't get me wrong on this one). Both are exceptional tubes so I wouldn’t hesitate to experiment with either. Which would I be chasing if I were hunting for some great tubes? That’s easy both!"
 
 
Maybe someone can explain the yearr differnces with the PQ's better.

 

[rb2013]

Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube

Once you get into the rarified air of the super 6922 equiv tubes it starts to come down to individual tastes and your system. For me it's been these very rare Holy Grail 6n23p's. In my 20yrs+ of dabbling in high end audio, it truly has been transformational.

Take the rich harmonic tonality of the best Amperex and combine it with the deep detail, air and just hypnotic holographic imaging of the best Siemens CCa/E88CC and you have the best tube I've ever heard.

But I could see why the Amperex Pinched Waists would appeal to some folks - they are so euphonic in an extrodinary way - loads of fun.

The Amperex USN CEP and the Tele E88CC share many wonderful traits - that's a close call. I'd try a good pair of those or if you're interested in the Russian sound the '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. These do some amazing things the Amperex, Telefunken or the Siemens don't quite capture. So many excellent tubes - so little time!

 

[rb2013]

There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


"If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these..."

That is his quote about the rarity of the pinched waists.

The PWs can be found easier then the HG 6n23p, they're just expensive. I had the PQ white labels, and now have two different PWs, and an Orange PQ. The PQs while sharing a family resemblence, the PWs are the beauty queens. They really are leaps beyond the PQs. They do things I've never heard a tube do before - just dripping with emotion. Something to behold.

That reminds me I need to finish the review I started that included both of these. It's been complicated by the acquisition of the '57 6dj8 PW Holland.

 

[PinkLed]

  I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3
 
Those are new 1961 Amperex PQ's relabelled as RCA and they offer returns. I haven't heard the Siemens 6922, but on that same Joe's Tube Lore he sort of explains the difference.
 
"So how do the Siemens and Amperex stack up comparatively? Well, to my ears, the Siemens sound just a bit more linear, with just a touch less vibrancy and life and freedom from grain that are the hallmarks of the best Amperexes. The Amperexes sound just a bit more full bodied and lively on top and are a touch more romantic in balance. The Siemens also tend to throw up slightly larger images, the Amperexes slightly smaller, better focused images (but not small - don't get me wrong on this one). Both are exceptional tubes so I wouldn’t hesitate to experiment with either. Which would I be chasing if I were hunting for some great tubes? That’s easy both!"
 
 
Maybe someone can explain the yearr differnces with the PQ's better.

I have heard similar claims. As stated in the poll RB listed earlier coincidentally 
 
6922 Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better),
 
I have 66" whites, must explain the 70$ price tag but they are no slouch either.

I was unaware that Amperex rebranded as RCA though, I've always though Philips and Amperex were associated but I could very well be wrong. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in. 
 
http://www.vintagetubeservices.com/page9.html (some Amperex history, tube making was truly an art!)

 

[rb2013]

I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3

Those are new 1961 Amperex PQ's relabelled as RCA and they offer returns. I haven't heard the Siemens 6922, but on that same Joe's Tube Lore he sort of explains the difference.

"So how do the Siemens and Amperex stack up comparatively? Well, to my ears, the Siemens sound just a bit more linear, with just a touch less vibrancy and life and freedom from grain that are the hallmarks of the best Amperexes. The Amperexes sound just a bit more full bodied and lively on top and are a touch more romantic in balance. The Siemens also tend to throw up slightly larger images, the Amperexes slightly smaller, better focused images (but not small - don't get me wrong on this one). Both are exceptional tubes so I wouldn’t hesitate to experiment with either. Which would I be chasing if I were hunting for some great tubes? That’s easy both!"


Maybe someone can explain the yearr differnces with the PQ's better.

You can checkout the Tube World voters choice rankings. I have to say the Amperex USN CEP white labels were the most neutral sounding Amperex I've heard, but still with a rich tone. They start to converge with the Tele EE88CC - and both share a similar natural sound signature to the HG 6n23p. I've never heard a Siemens I would say was rich tonally. Neutral yes, detailed heck yes, transparent absolutely, air and holographic no doubt. But, as I've said before I'm a tone guy. The Siemens have always had this dry quality that wasn't as pleasing as those tubes with a richer harmonic sound. But I can see why some folks would love them. I'm also a detail, air, holographic ss guy.

I want it all in one package! AND I FOUND IT!!!!!!

 

[satwilson]

  Thanks satwilson. I understand your opinion but I trust tube museum and agree with them saying that the Siemens E88CC's that I have are really holy grail tubes. They are extremely rare and are sometimes more pricier than the Siemens CCa's. 
 
And I cannot keep these tubes and roll at the same time due to an empty wallet, I just simply don't have enough money unfortunately. I am hoping to sell these NOS tubes. They are also matched. 

I think you misunderstood my point which was, the tubes you have may be better than any others you "roll". There are a number of so called "holy grails" out there depending on your sonic preferences. My personal preferences are for Telefunken and Siemens, for me the Holy Grail, so I agree with the Tube Museum.  Before I decided that, one of my trusted HeadFi friends told me the RTC Mullard E188CC's were "The Holy Grail" I bought some NOS/NIB Mullards, NOT MY HOLY GRAIL. Your original post was to the effect "what are some upgrades from my Siemens", now I understand it was, " I want to roll some tubes". You may indeed like some other tubes better, or not. Rolling tubes is an amazing journey in self realization. However it can be expensive and you may not end up with something better than your Siemens. Selling your tubes is another part of the learning curve as the results from a calibrated tube tester, the label integrity, date matching as well as power matching, etc, all come into play here to determine value. This whole process is more complicated than you imagine. Good luck, sometimes the journey is the most important part. 

 

[satwilson]

I take great solace in the incredible sound I have achieved with the Tele E88CC's from Upscale, my Bifrost, Lyr, and self modded T50RP's(BMF varient) It has taken me a few months, a few tubes, to decide what my sound preferences are. The last tube gear I owned were a pair of Acoustat Electrostatic Speakers back in the 70's.I still own all SS gear in my BIG system, B&K, Anthem, Carver, all great stuff. But the enjoyment this Lyr amp has brought has me mesmerized. The incredible micro details, accurate timbre and voicing for instruments, dynamic range, WOW. I am going to have to rethink this SS vs Tube thing. Time for me to step away from this forum for a while and simply enjoy the music. I am not one to need or enjoy different tubes and sound signatures as some of you do, but I respect that approach, and want to thank all of you who have responded to my post's with advice and support. Last night I listened to an album I am very familiar with. First time with the Bifrost/Tele/Lyr, previously with my Audio GD NFB12. The album is "Whats it all About" by Pat Metheny, solo guitar. Not his usual wild Jazz stuff, but beautiful, lyrical, melodious. His arrangements of 50s,60s, Pop, Rock, Folk hits. Perhaps best appreciated by those who grew up in those times. Highlights include: "The Sound Of Silence", played on his 32 string Pikasso guitar, stunning sound no other guitarist can create. (What's It All About) "Alfie", the numerous changes of key, tempo, and dynamics, just wonderful. You will be humming this silly pop tune for days. Finally, "And I Love Her", by you know who! The difference in sound from the NFB12 to the Bifrost/Lyr.....with the NFB12 I was in the 5th row at the concert, with the Lyr I was the microphone by his guitar. Enjoy!