[Nic Rhodes]

For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.

 

[rb2013]

   
Don't get too hung up on brands, guys. The manufacturer and the factory matters, a particular silkscreen does not.
 
Ediswan and Mazda (UK) were AEI brands. Thorn bought Brimar from STC in 1960. In 1961 Thorn and AEI merged their tube interests, including CRTs, in a joint venture forming Thorn-AEI. A tube made at the Rochester plant could carry any one of the brands.

+1

 

[rb2013]

   
You might like the British tubes (Mullards, Brimar, et al.).  I've got three pairs and another on the way, and they live up to their rep of being "warm."

So you're the one buying up all these Mullard CV's 

 

[billerb1]

For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.

 


Yeah I'd look for the Mullards. Wouldn't put the Voshkods under the "warm" label...but that's just me.

 

[ThurstonX]

  So you're the one buying up all these Mullard CV's 

 
I did just pick up the only pair of CV4109s I saw on eBay, from a Colorado seller from whom I bought a pair of... Amperex E88CCs??  Too many freakin' tubes!  Make me stop!

  They were a pretty good price, so Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to me (one tube for each holiday

 )

 

[scizzro]

Really liking my Lyr 2 so far. It's bringing out details, especially in the bass, that I've missed on some songs with my gen-1 Magni.
I want to spend a little more time with the stock tubes, but eventually would like to dip my toe into the rolling world. Are there any good improvements over the stocks in the $30-40 range or less for the pair?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

 

  For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.

 


Yeah I'd look for the Mullards. Wouldn't put the Voshkods under the "warm" label...but that's just me.

I would agree with that, decent enough tubes if picked very carefully but warm? Warm buy Mullard.

 

[rb2013]

 

  For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.

 


Yeah I'd look for the Mullards. Wouldn't put the Voshkods under the "warm" label...but that's just me.

I would agree with that - although the better Voskhods ('75s)  and certainly the HG Reflektor '75s and '74s are very musical - very smooth, never harsh or fatiguing.  But they are neutral in balance and have a rich natural tone.  For some folks 'warm' kinda means less detail and a recessed sound stage presentation.  The best 6n23p's have amazing amounts of detail,clarity and transparency.  The added layer of detail unmasks the ambient clues buried deep in the mix to reproduce the most holographic sound stage and imaging I have heard yet.  They are 'front row' in presentation - definitely not back row.  Some Amperex's are warmish as well - some call them euphonic. That can be fun to listen to - but for me at least  - I miss the detail.  You hear stuff that you never heard before on recording - hard to go back.

 

[nickwin]

I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.
 
I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it. 
 
I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair. 

 

[sfo1972]

  I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.
 
I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it. 
 
I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair. 

Thank you for sharing your experience with the tubes. Where did you pickup the Amperex? Did you get them for a reasonable price?
 
I am also curious if you had a chance to try these tubes on speakers in addition to cans?

 

[Guidostrunk]

Quick question. Are these any good at 90 bucks(pair)? Matched pair Amperex PQ 6922, 1963 white lables.

I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.

I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it. 

I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair. 

 

[ThurstonX]

Quick question. Are these any good at 90 bucks(pair)? Matched pair Amperex PQ 6922, 1963 white lables.

 
If they've tested well and don't have any obvious problems, yep, that's a good price.  Of course, you need to trust the seller on some level.

 

[Guidostrunk]

He's actually local. So I'll get to meet him in person. He said they're NOS. we shall see. I'll compare them to my 75 HG's. Thanks.

If they've tested well and don't have any obvious problems, yep, that's a good price.  Of course, you need to trust the seller on some level.

 

[Michael V]

Hey everyone. I'm getting my lyr 2 today and was wondering which tube will be a good match for an hd 650 and i'm looking something with forward mids and a wide soundstage. Budget is around $60 for a pair. Thanks!

 

[rb2013]

  I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair. 

+1 Good post.  But most who have compared the Voskhods to the Amperex found the Voskhods way better.  Are your VR's matched and tested?
Which Amperexs did you get - and how much were they?  How much did you pay for the '73s?  Did you burn in the '73s for at least 100 hrs before doing critical listening?  They do need this time to sound their best - in fact get better out to 200 hrs.
 
The Amperex 6922 USN-CEP white labels are my favorites - but they sell for $150 - $200/pr.  The '73 Voskhods SWGP are near the bottom of the vintage 6N23P in my comparison and sell for $40- $50/pr.  So that's an unfair comparison.  Try a pr of '74 or '75 Reflektors Silver Shields SWGP in comparison they're in the same price range.
 
You did say "my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor"..."(my 3rd set of tubes)".  So you are making this statement based on owning 3 sets of tubes? "What one person loves you might hate and vise versa" - I've never heard anyone 'hate' the HGs, or the '60s Tele E88CC's, or the Siemens CCa early 60s.  Maybe not their #1 favorites, but hate?... "The Lyr is my first piece of tube audio gear" - so based on just your recent experience with the Lyr and trying 3 pairs of tubes - you make these broad statements? I've been rolling tubes, 6922s in particular for 20 yrs, have owned all kinds of tube gear, and currently own two speaker driven systems with amps that use the 6922, a DAC that uses it as well, and of course the Lyr.  I have rolled over 50 different types of tubes and have documented my experiences in this thread for over a yr and a half.   I've compared every Amperex made (virtually), and Siemens, and Telefunken, and....have shared many of the 6n23p's I've been able to screen and match - not once that I can remember did anyone ever have the experience you have.   The reason I've posted here and shared tubes is to get other folks take on these amazing 6n23p's. They may not everyone's favorite - but almost universally they are very well liked - and many have been 'blown away' by them (as a recent Headfier told me).
 
Don't just take my word on it - read the many, many posts from other Headfiers here and on other threads raving about these vintage 6n23p's.  Like  Shinn44's (1000+ Head-Fi'er) recent comments over on the Lyr2 thread - he's a seasoned Headfier. Post #392 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/390
 
That said I've never heard anyone call the '73 Voskhods 'shrill and fatiguing'. I've had every 6n23p-ev -eb I could get my hands on and they all were mediocre at best.  There must be something wrong with your pair of '73s.
 
Just a note of caution when buying from Russian, Ukrainian, Serbian, Bulgarian ebay dealers - they often misrepresent their tubes.  Approximately 30-40% of the 'NOS' tube I buy there fail testing on my tube tester or on listening tests in the Lyr.  Some of the tests, like grid leakage and section/balance mismatching, may not prevent the tube from working but would just not sound very good.
 
Anyway - I'd recommend burning in the '73s for at least 100 hours and give them another listen (they could probably use a good pin soak in DeOxit and some Progold treatment).  Good luck!