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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers
Dec 13, 2017 at 8:02 PM Post #15,376 of 23,494
redrich2000 said:
What do you all here think of the Lisst?
Click to expand...

I hear the LISST pair well with the HD800s. Personally, I think they're OK compared to the likes of Schiit's Jotunheim. The Jot just had better transients, lower end slam, and the doesn't smear the mids like the LISST do.
 
Dec 13, 2017 at 10:56 PM Post #15,378 of 23,494
Autostart said:
* me be cocky and in a New Yorker voice *

"If I wanted a solid state amp I woulda bought a solid state amp"

All kiddy aside. I have heard some great reviews from a lot of folks. I would love to try them but not for $100. Many other tubes to buy first!
Click to expand...
Na that is what the wifey buys you after breaking all your tubes after she finds out you were using the mortgage money to buy all them tubes you bought. The ultimate punishment for freaks like us.
 
Dec 14, 2017 at 2:41 AM Post #15,380 of 23,494
koover said:
Jus

Just got to work, just changed password and don’t remember off hand. Just copy paste and it should come up with the lot you’d want.
8x 6n3p-e / 2c51 / 396a / 6385 / Ecc42 Russian Tubes

Go to post 14697 on page # 980 and get @rnros take on these tubes. He’s a very knowledgeable guy who you can put stock into his words with solid advice. One of the many. For the money, you can’t go wrong bro.
And as everyone says, YMMV and it’s all a matter of taste.
But in this case , its delicious.

Edit: I just realized, are you asking about adapter? If so, I can’t pull up the link and someone else will have to chime in unless you want to wait another 15 hours then I can assist you.
Click to expand...

Ok, I've bought the tubes and the adapters. Will post my impressions, thanks
 
Dec 14, 2017 at 9:39 AM Post #15,381 of 23,494
A couple hypothetical questions. One is easy (I think), the other is above my pay grade.
  1. can the MJ 2 run 7DJ8/PCC88 (so, 7 volts) safely and reliably? The heater at 0.3a is not a problem.
  2. Assuming one has a tube tester that can measure plate current and heater current, in order to best test tubes for the Lyr one needs to bias the tester. What is the ideal plate current to test tubes for the Lyr? And is there a difference between Lyr 1 and Lyr 2? I asked Schiit and they were not forthcoming, so I'm not sure there's a way to get to the answer, but I thought I'd ask you smart people :)
 
Dec 14, 2017 at 10:21 AM Post #15,383 of 23,494
ThurstonX said:
A couple hypothetical questions. One is easy (I think), the other is above my pay grade.
  1. can the MJ 2 run 7DJ8/PCC88 (so, 7 volts) safely and reliably? The heater at 0.3a is not a problem.
  2. Assuming one has a tube tester that can measure plate current and heater current, in order to best test tubes for the Lyr one needs to bias the tester. What is the ideal plate current to test tubes for the Lyr? And is there a difference between Lyr 1 and Lyr 2? I asked Schiit and they were not forthcoming, so I'm not sure there's a way to get to the answer, but I thought I'd ask you smart people :)
Click to expand...

The 7DJ8 will operate with 6.3V, with no issues that I have ever heard of, or experienced. I have several. That is a 10% V difference, and I have seen some tube datasheets with a stated +/- 10% range for the heater V. If anything, the heater filaments may last longer. Doesn't affect the amp.
@kolkoo can give you detailed information on the tester setup. Don't know about any driver bias difference between the LYR1/2.
 
Dec 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM Post #15,384 of 23,494
@ThurstonX the Lyr/Lyr2/Mj2 both use 100V plate voltage per rail and it auto biases the grid voltage so it can run the tubes at 6mA ( I have no official confirmation on this, just read it somewhere once and it makes sense because some low mA tubes like the 2C51 run fine without noise and issues and they don't have very high transconductance ). Basically with a tester that can measure plate current you are best off setting the Plate Voltage at 100V, the Grid voltage at -1.2V (or 9V with 680 ohm cathode resistor) and at this point as per Philips spec the Plate current should be 15mA+-0.8mA. Generally any value of 14 to 16 in this case would be considered 100%.


P.S. If you tester is not a newer digital one, it would be best if you check your voltages for heater, plate and grid that are actually going out and compare them to the ones you actually set on the dials (calibration).

P.S.2. Also 8 out of 10 times testing tubes that match on Mu (gain) and Gm(transconductance) also match on Ia(plate current). However some tubes that have low Mu (mu varies from 25 to 40 per spec) and High Gm in turn have low Rp( Rp =Mu/Gm) and higher Ia. And some tubes with real nice Gm but also high Mu have lower Ia because the Rp is higher. So this is the edge case you can't catch with a tester that only measures Ia.
 
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Dec 14, 2017 at 11:48 AM Post #15,385 of 23,494
redrich2000 said:
What do you all here think of the Lisst?
Click to expand...

When I got the Lyr 2 recently, I got a set of Electroharmonix gold pins, the stock tubes, and a pair of Voskhods I already had lying around from an older amp.

The LISST were technically very good, good extension on both ends, smooth tone, but they lacked the organic/natural sound of tubes, especially the Voskhods. It was hard to go back to solid state after hearing really good tubes. The Voskhods really excelled at subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to. The LISST did not reveal these differences listening to the same music for me. They were alot more straight up and just delivered the music in a more clinical manner, although this might be pleasing to some people and may work for more technical music like electronic/EDM. If all I heard was LISST, I may actually even like them, but compared to good tubes they were severely lacking IMO.
 
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Dec 14, 2017 at 12:40 PM Post #15,386 of 23,494
ColtMrFire said:
...subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm talking about! : ) And even finer nuances...
I'm not one to say that any particular tube is absolutely the BEST, but I would agree that certain tubes are objectively better. Best is subjective.
And it is very much subject to the synergy of ear, gear, and music/recording choices. However, in pursuit of the aural experience so eloquently stated... : )
Some of the tubes that I have found that approach this Concert Hall Realism with the Lyr, from sub bass to high treble with excellent tonal balance throughout,
from solo string to full orchestra:
9 Pin Novals: RFL 6N3P-E, followed by TS 2CF1 and WE 396 (There are some other 2CF1 I have not heard.)
8 Pin Octals: Ken Rad early '40s JAN CKR 6C8G, followed by the Tung Sol, and some other 6C8Gs.

Yes, YMMV. Especially since I am not familiar with your DAC and headphone.
It may be that your Voskhods are even better than these, only you can determine that, but the handful of Voskhod pairs I have are a notch below these.
I readily suggest these because the cost is so low to give them a try, and add them to your tube library.
The Ken Rad is a little more, about $35/pair, plus adapters/extenders, still very inexpensive compared to other tube choices that approach this performance level.
 
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Dec 14, 2017 at 2:51 PM Post #15,390 of 23,494
ColtMrFire said:
When I got the Lyr 2 recently, I got a set of Electroharmonix gold pins, the stock tubes, and a pair of Voskhods I already had lying around from an older amp.

The LISST were technically very good, good extension on both ends, smooth tone, but they lacked the organic/natural sound of tubes, especially the Voskhods. It was hard to go back to solid state after hearing really good tubes. The Voskhods really excelled at subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to. The LISST did not reveal these differences listening to the same music for me. They were alot more straight up and just delivered the music in a more clinical manner, although this might be pleasing to some people and may work for more technical music like electronic/EDM. If all I heard was LISST, I may actually even like them, but compared to good tubes they were severely lacking IMO.
Click to expand...

Wow. The Voskods I tried were terrible tubes. No better than the stock junk you get with the amp. I like the LISST "tubes" better!
 
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