[dailydoseofdaly]

1054 Lorenz PCC88

Man you read the edit fast . Should have referenced your posts above. The Lorenz went fast back in octoberish 2011. Keep an eye on the f/s thread, they show up now and again.

 

[paradoxper]

Have prices for Lorenz inflated yet...if so..I'm ready to sell a few. 

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

There are two versions of this tube...the clear tops,& the blackplates..the cleartops have a bit more on the top end.......the blackplates have  a stronger bass..

That's funny i felt like the black plates had more high energy, and the clear tops had slightly more bass.
Either way you can definitely tell they are siblings and both have a addictive sound to me

 

[MickeyVee]

Does anyone have any opinion on these??
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm 

 

[mikek200]

Quote:

That's funny i felt like the black plates had more high energy, and the clear tops had slightly more bass.
Either way you can definitely tell they are siblings and both have a addictive sound to me

Well,the blackplates that Jesse sold me,which were a matched pair..seemed to give me a slight bass increase...I called him about it,& he said the same thing..
who knows,could be the phones? we use,the amp?
Anyway,I enjoy both....a good quality tube at a very low price...and most importantly...made in USA.

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

Mike what were yours labeled?

 

[Fearless1]

Here is a brief summery of the latest batch of Matched pairs that I have tried in order of preference:
 
[size=x-small]LORENZ PCC 88- [/size][size=x-small]Fantastically rich meaty sound, bass and mids very prevalent. This is my favorite so far. The only negative is the sound stage is not as wide. Phenomenal with bassy music.[/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]SIEMENS 6DJ8- [/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small]Wonderful sound, sparkling highs and the widest sound stage and instrument separation of the bunch. Bass extension and mids not as good as the Lorenzs (not far behind though). .[/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]AMPEREX ORANGE LABEL 6DJ8- The most "tubey" sounding. Very nice for rock and folk. Absolutely haunting vocals with these tubes. [/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small]Ediswan 6922- [/size][size=x-small]Rich and bass heavy, great mids and highs. Not very good with sound stage.[/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]Westinghouse 6922- [/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small]Nice sounding tube that does everything above average. [/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]GE Smoke glass ECC88-[/size][/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small] I was disappointed with these. They sound decent, but not quit up to the Westinghouse. I bought them from E-bay so who knows..... I expected more.[/size][/size][/size]
 
RCA USA 6CG7 3 Black - Sweet "middle of the road" sound. Lacks the energy of the ones listed above this.
 
I do realize that sound is subjective, this is just an attempt to describe how these latest tube purchases sound to me.
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small] These are a fewTh[/size][/size]

 

[WesternE]

Here is a brief summery of the latest batch of Matched pairs that I have tried in order of preference:
 
[size=x-small]LORENZ PCC 88- [/size][size=x-small]Fantastically rich meaty sound, bass and mids very prevalent. This is my favorite so far. The only negative is the sound stage is not as wide. Phenomenal with bassy music.[/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]SIEMENS 6DJ8- [/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small]Wonderful sound, sparkling highs and the widest sound stage and instrument separation of the bunch. Bass extension and mids not as good as the Lorenzs (not far behind though). .[/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]AMPEREX ORANGE LABEL 6DJ8- The most "tubey" sounding. Very nice for rock and folk. Absolutely haunting vocals with these tubes. [/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small]Ediswan 6922- [/size][size=x-small]Rich and bass heavy, great mids and highs. Not very good with sound stage.[/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]Westinghouse 6922- [/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small]Nice sounding tube that does everything above average. [/size][/size]
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]GE Smoke glass ECC88-[/size][/size][/size][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small] I was disappointed with these. They sound decent, but not quit up to the Westinghouse. I bought them from E-bay so who knows..... I expected more.[/size][/size][/size]
 
RCA USA 6CG7 3 Black - Sweet "middle of the road" sound. Lacks the energy of the ones listed above this.
 
I do realize that sound is subjective, this is just an attempt to describe how these latest tube purchases sound to me.
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small] These are a fewTh[/size][/size]

 
Thanks for the summary. I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.) I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge. I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.

 

[eddiek997]

Any specific caps you have in mind? I was looking at these but am not sure of the specs I should get. I use S&H cca's as well as some bugle boys and rca silvertop pre amp tubes in my lyr.
 
 
Quote

 
Thanks for the summary.I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.)I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge.I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.

 

[mikek200]

Quote:

Any specific caps you have in mind? I was looking at these but am not sure of the specs I should get. I use S&H cca's as well as some bugle boys and rca silvertop pre amp tubes in my lyr.
 
 

+1 on this question as well & have many different types of tubes..
Any further info ,would be much appreciated..
 
TNX,
Mike

 

[MrScary]

Quote:

 
Thanks for the summary.I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.)I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge.I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.

Well over biasing a tube or under biasing is done all the time.. That is one of the interesting things about the PC88 Stuggart Lorenz is the Lyr only is putting out 6.3 so they are under biased and are one of the best sounding tubes yet that we have found since we started tube rolling..
why you would be worried about not running at tube at its "operating point" is silly... In the big world of tubes like guitar amps we under bias and over bias all the time...This is nothing new your mention of the caps is of interested how much they would change anything is an unknown with the Lyr
and would have to be investigated but the bottom line is if you changed them would you hear a difference? if not waste of time.

 

[paradoxper]

I swore there have been some people within this thread that have changed out the caps, no?
 
IIRC: The results were "better" but didn't seem as big as rolling tubes.
 
EDIT: I couldn't find any post on it. Perhaps I was wrong...maybe not...

 

[mikek200]

And,
Is there any confirmation from Jason at Schiit,that this is a safe procedure..
Couldn't it possible cause damage to the Lyr,or worse yet,,to a Lorenz???

 

[Lord Soth]

Quote:

And,
Is there any confirmation from Jason at Schiit,that this is a safe procedure..
Couldn't it possible cause damage to the Lyr,or worse yet,,to a Lorenz???

 

 Usually audiophiles are more concerned about damaging their amps than their tubes! LOL
 
Yes, the Lorenz tubes are very good tubes.
 
I finally carried out a shootout between the Pinched Waist 6922 Amperex (* USA) versus my stash of Lorenz tubes.
The PW 6922 has the treble euphonic extension of the Lorenz CCa (2 Mica) and the Midrange euphony of the Lorenz E88CC (2 Mica).
The bottom end of the PW 6922 has punch but loses out slightly to the Lorenz PCC88 (2 Mica).
 
Another way of looking at the PW 6922 is that it is similar to a Lorenz PCC88 (3 Mica) or Lorenz 6922 (3 Mica) in being balanced sonically.
However, the PW 6922 still does sound slightly better at both the Treble and the Midrange.
 
The normal Amperex 6922s themselves are also almost as good (IMHO at least 90%) as pinched waist Amperex 6922s.
The usual drill about "D" getters and grey shields being better also apply as usual.
 
So for those who are lusting after the Lorenz but can't get hold of them,
a suitable and worthy replacement would be the normal Amperex (*USA) 6922 which is cheap and readily available.
 
Epilogue or Prologue as the case may be. Joe was right! IMHO, the Amperex PW 6922s are the King of the hill!

 

[mikek200]

Great info LordSoth..
 
  " Usually audiophiles are more concerned about damaging their amps than their tubes! LOL"
 
Yes, just thought that Paradoxper,might get a chuckle out that statement.
He loves his Lorenzes...actually,so do I.
 
Mike