Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread

[Misterrogers]

Read up on the Siemens & Halske CCa's. They're not cheap, but they're one of the holy grail tubes. Extremely balance, dimensional, dynamic with tons of detail. You'll find a lot of impressions on this thread. And as luck would have it, I have a pair for sale in the classifieds 

 

[HK_sends]

Quote:

I think from 100$ up to 500$. Can you please suugest some tubes in different prices, so that I can choose. The only demand is that they sound in balance like my 6BZ7!
I was thinking about Philips miniwatt SQ, but some people say that they are brighter than my GE.

 
And may be some alternatives with will be just a little bit darker than GE (at 6-8KHz).

You might also consider some Mullard ECC88 tubes or PCC88 tubes made by various manufacturers.  You could consider these:
 
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm  or
 
go here: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/ and look for National PCC88 tubes (The freakin' profanity filter wont let me link directly to them because it thinks part of a Japanese name is a bad word. 

)
 
They seem to have a balanced sound, if not a little too light in the bass (for my taste).  However, Your Mileage May Vary...
 
Cheers!

-HK sends
 
 

 

[dubselect]

Thank you very much. I will consider all the alternatives.

 

[MrScary]

I think my friend you will need to go on a tube rolling journey like most of us here that have comes to some sort of consensus on what sounds good in general. Depending on your DAC your source cables etc... There is no one right tube for you. You will need to explore look back through this huge thread and
try a few out. In all honesty you are going to rack up a bill finding what you are searching for.. What works for one does not for the other... There are many variables in this decision you are pondering... Gooc luck I can tell you It was about a 2,500 dollar journey for me.

 

[WNBC]

That's quite a bit of money.  You could have gone to a higher end amp by the time you were done rolling.
 
So, with all of that experience rolling tubes did you ever come across a pair of tubes costing say $50 that topped a $100-150 Lorenz Stuggart squats/3-mica or $200-300 Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken CCa?  I know you did a summary a long time ago but if you have something that comes to mind quickly that could help some new rollers.  Nobody has to spend more than $10 for a pair of good tubes but keep in mind that there is much more out there.  We all set limits on this hobby, some more, some less.
 
I recently broke out the Gold Lions.  They are not cheap in themselves, $100 for a pair.  Very musical and smooth but not as detailed and punchy as the Lorenz.  The Gold Lions were almost too smooth.  Up and down the spectrum the notes were more textured and palpable with the Lorenz.  I could live with the Gold Lions but there is better out there.  Next week I'll break out the IEC Mullards.
 

 
Quote:

I think my friend you will need to go on a tube rolling journey like most of us here that have comes to some sort of consensus on what sounds good in general. Depending on your DAC your source cables etc... There is no one right tube for you. You will need to explore look back through this huge thread and
try a few out. In all honesty you are going to rack up a bill finding what you are searching for.. What works for one does not for the other... There are many variables in this decision you are pondering... Gooc luck I can tell you It was about a 2,500 dollar journey for me.

 

 

[HK_sends]

Quote:

That's quite a bit of money.  You could have gone to a higher end amp by the time you were done rolling.
 
So, with all of that experience rolling tubes did you ever come across a pair of tubes costing say $50 that topped a $100-150 Lorenz Stuggart squats/3-mica or $200-300 Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken CCa?  I know you did a summary a long time ago but if you have something that comes to mind quickly that could help some new rollers.  Nobody has to spend more than $10 for a pair of good tubes but keep in mind that there is much more out there.  We all set limits on this hobby, some more, some less.
 
I recently broke out the Gold Lions.  They are not cheap in themselves, $100 for a pair.  Very musical and smooth but not as detailed and punchy as the Lorenz.  The Gold Lions were almost too smooth.  Up and down the spectrum the notes were more textured and palpable with the Lorenz.  I could live with the Gold Lions but there is better out there.  Next week I'll break out the IEC Mullards.

Consider Tungsram PCC88s: http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
All-in-all, pretty good sounding.  Also consider:  http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
 
Hope this helps...
 
Cheers!

-HK sends
 
 

 

[dubselect]

MrScary
Thanks for the commentary.
But I don't think it's worth spending so much money for tubes. In my opinion, some people, who start tube rolling, just don't know, what sound do they like. So, they are searching for it.
But I know - 6BZ7 is OK for me. I love the sound of my system now, but maybe it can show me something more? I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?
On the other hand, if you have so much money, I think it's better to buy more expensive amp then, than byuing so much tubes for quite cheap Lyr.
It's just my opinion. Don't take it to heart, please. In addition, I don't think it will be easy for me to sell unnecessary tube pairs afterwards in my country.
Correct me, if I'm not right about tube rolling.

 

[Misterrogers]

The problem for many newbie tube rollers, is that they don't know what they don't know. I remember when I bought my Lyr - it had stock JJ's. With my current gear, I couldn't imagine it sounding any better - till I got curious and rolled in the 6BZ7's. Wow - nice improvement. If switching to those could make such a difference... Then came the Brimar Ediswan CV2492's. WOW - even better! You get the idea. Nobody heads down the 'rolling' road intending on spending that sort of money (I know I didn't). If the 6BZ7 is OK for you, then save you're money 

. But - chances are really good that Lyr can show you more, much more. The matter of 'which' tube would be more for you and your chain - well as Scary said, lots of variations and possibilities. We've offered up a few of the more reliable ones.
 
Quote:

MrScary
Thanks for the commentary.
But I don't think it's worth spending so much money for tubes. In my opinion, some people, who start tube rolling, just don't know, what sound do they like. So, they are searching for it.
But I know - 6BZ7 is OK for me. I love the sound of my system now, but maybe it can show me something more? I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?
On the other hand, if you have so much money, I think it's better to buy more expensive amp then, than byuing so much tubes for quite cheap Lyr.
It's just my opinion. Don't take it to heart, please. In addition, I don't think it will be easy for me to sell unnecessary tube pairs afterwards in my country.
Correct me, if I'm not right about tube rolling.

 

 

[M-13]

Quote:

I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?
 

I'm not Mr. Scary but for me this has been absolutely true. Tube rolling has made a more positive impact to the sound then adding the Lyr Amp in the first place. When you roll in the right vintage tube it will sound like a whole new amp and your headphone will sound like a whole new headphone. The impact has been HUGE for me personally. If you told me to go back to the stock GE tubes I would cry...
 

 
Quote:

The problem for many newbie tube rollers, is that they don't know what they don't know.


 

+1 So true. I was a skeptic until I started rolling. It's very easy to see and understand why Mr. Scary spent that much. He has helped out a lot of people through his experimentation and posting his findings. Same with you Misterrogers, you are the one who discovered the Lorenz Stuttgart and was kind of enough to let everyone know on this thread (which started the craze). I hope you make another similar discovery and this time I will not be too slow to react.

 

[obazavil]

Just play safe and stay below 6 pairs (yeah sure).
 
Lorenz rul3z, Valvo are great. Is very fun to change tubes
 
Thanks to ppl like MrScary and Misterrogers, I could save money and play "safe" with mullards and valvo first, and Lorenz in the end. I'm like 2 or 3 more pairs than I planned when I first bought Lyr
 
But yeah... is easy to keep spending cash looking for a better sound

 

[mmayer167]

out of curiosity i rolled a pair of schiit matched 6n1p. i would add to the above stuffs by saying, " what schiit has to offer for tubes for the lyr are plenty good.(period) unless you have deep pockets and want to catch that illusive perfect tube" More later when and if i decide to put 6bz7, 6n1p, tungsram  pcc88 (or whatever the number is again), lorenz, and 23p's up against eachother. 
 
really enjoying vocals on the 6n1p! 
 
M
 
 

 

[dubselect]

I didn't want to say that tube rolling is useless. It's great, that some people can compare lots of tubes and than advice newbies right tubes or some alternatives. I'm pleased that they are here on forum.
I just wanted to say that tube rolling is not the only one thing that can improve the sound of music system. For example, I'm planning to buy a pair of tubes and also some new cables (for headphones too). And I'm sure that altogether all these components will give me great sound.
It is the same story with cables - I have tried a lot of pairs and everyone brought somthing new in sound. I was lucky cause I borrowed them from my friends.
Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone, who offered me some alternatives.

 

[Misterrogers]

Agreed. I've actually been focusing on the 'closer to source' part of my chain lately. An Audiophilleo2 was a noticeable improvement over spdif to Bifrost (my MacBookPro is the limiting factor here). A clean power source for Audiophilleo2 and good IC's (Ultraviolets) improved things further still. In some ways, it seems that improving my source components has had the effect of making tube changes less dramatic, more subtle. Put another way, tubes that were just Ok before these changes seem to be giving better performance. Makes sense when you think about it - at least to me.
 
Quote:

I didn't want to say that tube rolling is useless. It's great, that some people can compare lots of tubes and than advice newbies right tubes or some alternatives. I'm pleased that they are here on forum.
I just wanted to say that tube rolling is not the only one thing that can improve the sound of music system. For example, I'm planning to buy a pair of tubes and also some new cables (for headphones too). And I'm sure that altogether all these components will give me great sound.
It is the same story with cables - I have tried a lot of pairs and everyone brought somthing new in sound. I was lucky cause I borrowed them from my friends.
Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone, who offered me some alternatives.

 

 

[obazavil]

I tought mac mini and macbook spdif were good implementations, seems not.
 
Isn't supposed bifrost to take care of all jitter, so you don't need to have something of the price of Audiophilleo2?
 
 
 
 

 

[Misterrogers]

It's reasonably good, but it's limited to 24/96. More and more of my source material is > 96. The SPDIF port on a modern mac has been measured at > 100ps. Bifrost does a decent job of smoothing that out. Don't get me wrong - I was using spdif to Bifrost with a Silflex glass optical, and it sounded pretty darn good. Audiophilleo2 just sounds better, while delivering all of my high bit music to Bifrost in a bit perfect way. Also, Bifrost now consumes a relatively pure bit stream that's < 3ps jitter wise.
 
Again. Not necessary, but when you hear the difference - it's hard to go back.
 
Quote:

I tought mac mini and macbook spdif were good implementations, seems not.
 
Isn't supposed bifrost to take care of all jitter, so you don't need to have something of the price of Audiophilleo2?