sfo1972
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Posts
- 510
- Likes
- 80
LYR & LYR2
COMPATIBILITY CHART
COMPATIBILITY CHART
Practical Information from the Web & the Lyr Tube Rollers' Community
INTRODUCTIONWelcome to the Schiit Lyr & Lyr2 Tube Compatibility Chart thread. I have assembled this thread to assist new comers to the Lyr & Lyr2 headphone amps identify compatible tubes and get their bearing with the dizzying information available. The thread has been broken to the following parts:
TABLE OF CONTENTS
| PART 1. LYR/LYR2 COMPATIBILITY CHART | Focused on the compatibility chart with tube numbers and equivalent tubes |
| PART 2. USEFUL RESOURCES (SITES & VIDEOS) | Provides useful resources and links to help you get started with your research of Lyr tubes |
| PART 3. MOST COMMON TUBE CARE ITEMS | Answers commonly asked questions regarding Tube Extenders, Socket Savers, and the use of Deoxit Gold for tubes pin protection |
| PART 4. 6DJ8 TUBE ANATOMY | Overview of the construction of the 6DJ8 tube with components pictrues and a datasheet showing pinouts and technical ratings |
| PART 5. TUBE MANUFACTURERS & DATE CODES | Provides basic information regarding tube manufacturers and date codes to help you identify the manufacturer and production date. |
| PART 6. TUBE RECOMMENDATIONS & SHOOTOUTS | Collection of links collected from the tube rollers' community for top recommendations and tube shootouts. |
The information in this thread was collected from my research through numerous websites and member posts on the Lyr and Lyr2 tube rollers thread. This includes contributions from:
@oskari, @ThurstonX, @Nic Rhodes, @rb2013, @sfo1972, @gibosi, and others.
Many thanks to these guys and everyone who contributed to support of the Lyr community.
PART 1. LYR/LYR2 COMPATIBILITY CHART
The compatibility table is not exhaustive due to the nature of vintage tubes. We consider it work in progress and will be amended with corrections/additions as time permits.
CAUTION: Do your homework when you consult this table. To the best of our knowledge the list is correct; it is up to you to ensure compatibility with your Amp, check the specifications and double check that maximum ratings for tubes you are selecting are compatible with your Lyr/Lyr2 Headphone AMP.
We can’t stress enough that you are solely responsible for your equipment and ensuring compatibility. We offer this table to speed your learning process and provide concise knowledge. If in doubt, ask questions on the forum before buying or rolling.
[size=6pt]LAST UPDATE: JULY 28, 2015[/size]
No. | Tube Type[size=3pt] [/size](1)(2) | Schiit(3) | [size=12pt]Lyr[/size] | Lyr2 | Comments / Links |
1 | 6BZ7 = 6BQ7A = ECC180 / 6BQ7 | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bq7a.html |
2 | 6N1P / 6N1P-VI / 6N1P-EV | | ✓ | | Cyrillic 6Н1П/6Н1П-ВИ/6Н1П-ЕВ http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n1p.html |
3 | 6N2P | | ✓ | | Cyrillic 6Н2П – This Tube May work http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n2p.html |
4 | 6N23P / 6N23P-EV | | ✓ | ✓ | Cyrillic 6Н23П/6Н23П-ЕВ http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n23p.html Voltag & Wattage Information: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=207502 |
5 | ECC88 = 6DJ8 = CV5358 = M3624 | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6dj8.html |
6 | E88CC = 6922 = CV2492 | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc.html |
7 | CCa | | ✓ | ✓ | Selected E88CC http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cca.html |
8 | E88CC-01 = CV2493 | ✓ | ✓ | Selected from E88CC having good RF noise factor http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv2493.html | |
9 | E188CC = 7308 = CV4108 | | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e188cc.html |
10 | E288CC = 8223 | | ✓ | | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e288cc.html |
11 | PCC88 = 7DJ8 | | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7dj8.html |
12 | ECC85 = 6AQ8 | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc85.html | ||
13 | PCC85 = 9AQ8 | | ✓ | | 9 volts; does this work? http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pcc85.html |
14 | ECC804 / 6GA8 / 6/30L2 | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc804.html Photos: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaq0069.htm | |
15 | ECC189 = 6ES8 | | ✓ | | Variable mu(4), not recommended http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc189.html |
16 | PCC189 = 7ES8 | | ✓ | | Variable mu(4), not recommended http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pcc189.html |
17 | 6FQ7 / 6CG7 | | ✓ | | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6cg7.html |
18 | 6GU7 | | ✓ | | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6gu7.html |
19 | 6FW8 | ✓ | ✓ | http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6fw8.html | |
20 | 7963 | ✓ | ✓ | Requires an adapter to work - Not for the faint of heart http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7963.html http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2655#post_10787252 |
[size=10.0pt]Note (3): Schiit column indicates compatibility statement on Schiit’s website[/size]
Note (4): mu means variable gain which is not recommended for the Lyr. The standard gain (mu) for the 6DJ8 is 33
Find Oskari's & ThurstonX's original posts here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200[size=13pt] [/size]
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11157464
PART 2. USEFUL RESOURCES (SITES & VIDEOS)
[size=12pt] [/size]
Tube Information & Specs Sites:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm
http://www.tubebooks.org
http://www.radiomuseum.org http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
http://www.tubedata.info
http://www.r-type.org
http://www.tube-classics.de/indexen.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Matching-and-other-tube-info/Vacuum-Tube-Basics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
Vacuum Tube Basics Videos
The following youtube videos provide you with the basics of vacuum tube theory and operation:
(Part1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5SSKX74DKg
(Part2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=901iaPVVzY0
The Mullard UK factory video (shows why modern tubes are not as good as ones manufactured in the past):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y
PART 3. MOST COMMON TUBE CARE ITEMS
Tube Extenders and Socket Savers
Tube extenders and socket savers should be used to enhance your Amp's sockets [size=12pt]lifespan. The extenders plug into the your Amp's sockets and act as a pass-through device to your tubes protecting the sockets. They ease your ability to roll tubes into the Lyr and Lyr2 by making the replacement easier.[/size]
[size=12pt]NOVIB SOCKET SAVER - TUBEMONGER[/size] | [size=12pt]SOCKET SAVERS FROM EBAY[/size] |
[size=12pt]
| [size=12pt] 
|
[size=12pt]Relevant posts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4365#post_11181837 - @rb2013
http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/510#post_11175462 - @sfo1972
Enhancing Tubes' Lifespan with Deoxit Gold
It is recommended by seasoned tube rollers to protect your tubes pins with Deoxit gold. Its a simple treatment that provides better pins conductivity, increases durability, and eases tube rolling in and out of the sockets. Below are links to relevant posts with more details on the benefit and process. Also the Amazon link and product description are below.
Relevant Posts on the Tube Rollers thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4335#post_11176333 - @ThurstonX
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4335#post_11176998 - @rb2013
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4590#post_11228705 - @sfo1972
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007K8M9JA/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1425708652&sr=1&keywords=CAIG+kit
Amazon Product Description
"The VTSK cleans tubes and tube sockets quickly and easily. It also improves sound and increases conductivity. CAIG created a custom solution of their extremely popular CAIG DeoxIT just for the VTSK; D50L, a 25% concentration of the DeoxIT cleaner, is enormously effective at removing the scorching and oxidization which so greatly affects tube performance. This powerful solution is strong enough to remove even the toughest oxidization without damaging the delicate pins underneath. Allowing the pins to soak for a while in a bath of this solution cleaned even more, so CAIG includes a pair of troughs for soaking the tube pins."[/size]
PART 4. 6DJ8 TUBE ANATOMY
To get your bearings in the Lyr vintage tube world, you need a basic understanding of the 6DJ8 tube Anatomy. You can Google "6DJ8 Tubes" for in-depth articles on their theory, design, and manufacturing but for the purpose of this write-up I will focus on the basic parts to help you identify the different elements of the 6DJ8 tube construction.
Fundemntals:
The 6DJ8 is a dual-triode vacuum tube. The term triode refers to the elements used in signal amplification: Cathode, Grid, & Anode. There are 2 sections inside the 6DJ8 tube to amplify the signal amplification of one of the two stereo channels. The two tubes in the Lyr are used to amplify the signals coming from your source's Right and Left channels.
Components & Construction:
The below pictures are taken of a 6N23P Russian Reflektor (6DJ8 variant) with numbered components & their description:
| (1) The tube has 9-pins at its base that connect to the internal circuitry. (2) The first part of the tube's structure is a circular Mica disc, called the lower Mica spacer. This spacer is connected to two (3) vertical plate structures (the triode bodies) that in turn connect to the (4) second spacer, called the upper Mica spacer, near the top part of the tube. Each triode consists of 3 components: a Cathode (emits electrons), Anode (collects electrons), and Grid (controls the flow of the electrons). (7) There is a shield between the two triodes usually grey or silver in color. When you see these tubes listed for sale you will undoubtedly see a reference to this shield. (5) The upper Mica spacer is connected to a post, which varies in construction based on brand and year, and the post in turn is connected to a (6) disc known as the "Getter." These "Getters" vary in size and shape and you might have seen references to Halo getter, D getter, and so on. These getters will help you identify tubes make and models and will also provide different sonic qualities to your music. |
| (6) The getter here is from a Russian tube its inverted and looks like a saucer. (8) the 2 triodes' casing is shown for this tube. (9) the code is usually etched or printed at the bottom side of the tube. Note Russian tubes don't follow this nomencaltrue and have an easier way to identify them. |
6DJ8 Pins:
Triode 2 is connected as follows:
Pin 1: Plate
Pin 2: Grid
Pin 3: Cathode
Triode 1 is connected as follows:
Pin 6: Plate
Pin 7: Grid
Pin 8: Cathode
Pins 4 & 5 are Heater pins for the filaments that heat the cathodes
Pin 9 is the Shield pin
Data Sheet for the Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88:
PART 5. TUBE MANUFACTURERS & DATE CODES (DRAFT)
Introduction
Soon after you start tube rolling, you will discover the need to learn about tube manufacturers date codes. While this tends to be frustrating, convoluted, and partially voodoo; it is important to research and know these codes to ensure you buy genuine vintage tubes. If you are not careful with this, you can end up dropping a wad of cash on replicas that disappoint straight out of the box.
There are a lot of imitation tubes manufactured today capitalizing on audiophiles' demands for New Old Stock (NOS) tubes. Supplies of these vintage tubes are dwindling and copycats are bringing replicas to the market. Imitations include copies to outright slapping logos, such as Bugleboy, on modern tubes to entice the audiophile to buy. To ensure you land an authentic tubes, you will need to do your research, be patient, ask lots of questions, and always buy from trusted sources.
Tube Types (USA designation in Red, European designation in Blue, & Russian designation in Orange)
(USA) 6DJ8 / ECC88 (Europe)
Lyr/Lyr2 tubes have many different types that are equivalent. The standard 6DJ8 vintage tubes, used in the Lyr, were originally manufactured in the USA by GE and Sylvania while the European equivalent, the ECC88 technically identical, was manufactured in several European countries. Most common manufacturers include by Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex, Siemens, Tungsram, Mazda, Lorenz, Philips, and others. Note that Philips is the parent company of Amperex and has manufactured tubes in both the USA and Europe under different labels for Philips, Amperex, and other brands.
- Mullard (UK) manufactured for several other brands: RCA, Zenith, & other USA brands.
- Amperex (Holland) manufactured several popular 6DJ8 tubes including Bugle Boy logo, white ink, and Orange Globe logo.
(USA) 6922 / E88CC & E88CC-01 (Europe)
An improved version of the 6DJ8 / ECC88 having industrial attributes with lower noise and longer lifespan. They were utilized in military applications; Amperex manufactured these tubes for the US military for many years from their factory in New York. These Amperex tubes will have a "Made in the USA" on the glass. You can also find Pinched Waist tubes in this category. The E88CC-01 is a refined version of the E88CC tubes subjected to extensive testing for military applications. Some of the manufacturers and their plants in this category:
- Amperex Premium Quality (Premium Quality: PQ) white label (shield logo) with gold pins
- Amperex PQ White Label pinched waist, this is an hourglass look and feel around the upper mica spacer - Said to have better SQ due to lowering the microphonics
- Amperex Orange Globe (World logo)
- Sylvania JAN Military without gold pins
- Siemens in Germany manufactured RCA 6922 tubes with gold pins
- Philips, Siemens, & Mullard made the E88CC & E88C-01 for the European market all tubes usually with gold pins
- Philips' Holland Herleen factory produced these tubes under different brands: Valvo, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, and others
- Philips' France Suresnes factory produced Mazda branded tubes of this type - Capital F in line 2 of the date code
CV2492 & CV2493 (Europe):
Both of these tubes are the military edition of the E88CC and E88C-01 respectively. Most of the CV2492 tubes were made in the UK (Mullard) or Holland Herleeen (Amperex) in Europe. The CV2492 has a halo (O-type) getter and both of these tubes come in gold pins.
(USA) 7308 / E188CC (Europe):
These are manufactured to tight specifications and should be matched within the same brand to ensure proper balance of sound. The 7308 were primarily manufactured byAmperex in NY in two different versions: the Premium Quality (PQ) flavor and the military labeled (USN-CEP).
The E188CC tube was manufactured by Siemens, Telefunken, and Amperex (Hollaand and France) and also came with gold pins.
- 7308 manufactured in the USA by Amperex with Premium Quality (PQ) white label (shield logo) with gold pins
- Other 7308 brands include Sylvania and Raytheon but where Amperex 7308 relabelled for those manufacturers
- Amperex Holland produced the E188CC with a white ink Special Quality (SQ) label
- Amperex Holland produced several other brands of E18CC including Valaco, Miniwatt, Ario, Philips, and Adzam
- Siemens and Telefunken manufactured the E18CC tubes in Germany
- Telefunken tubes have a distinctive diamond shape etched in the glass at the bottom of the tube
E288CC (Europe):
Similar to 7308 & E188CC but draws more current and is physically a taller glass than the 7308/E18CC. These tubes have gold pins and tend to have a longer heater life. These tubes were manufactured in Holland and in Germany and you will find them under the Amperex brands and the Siemens/Telefunken brands respectively.
CCa (Europe):
This tube was made for the German Government and its military. Its a highly sought after tube by all discerning audiophiles and has the price tag that goes along with it. Since it was manufactured with very tight specs and for military applications you can expect a long list of great features such as low noise, longer heater life, tightly matched sections, gold pins, and so on.
These tubes are scarce and difficult to find. Most of the stock floating around will be German Telefunken and Siemens. You might find some manufactured by Philips in Holland but most experts indicate that those are very rare and hard to find.
7DJ8 (USA) / PCC88 (Europe):
This tube has a slightly higher heater ratings (7 Volts) than the 6DJ8 (6 Volts). Nonetheless, this tube heater rating is within Lyr2's tolerance limits. By default the Lyr1 can handle the higher rating of this of tube; I was able to verify this tube working in the Lyr2 in my own personal rig. There are many brands of this tube made in Europe including Mullards (UK), Telefunken & Siemens (Germany), Phlips/Amperex (Holland), Valvo, and others. The Japanese made a version of this tube under Matsush!ta as well.
(Russia) 6N23P
A Russian equivalent to the 6DJ8 tube produced in Russia with the designation 6N23P. These include several brands such as the Voskhod Rockets and Reflektors. The date of the tube is silk screened directly on Russian tubes, usually, which is really convinent when compared to deciphering cryptic date codes of other tubes.
6N1P as Reflektor, Voskhod and NEVZ for Novosibirsk
Matched Pairs & Burn-in:
The tubes manufacturing process will yield a range of performance characteristics that can vary up to 20%+ in test results. Amplifiers that don't have individual bias controls will require a pair of tubes be matched to ensure a good and pleasing sonic performance. When shopping for tubes for your Lyr or Lyr2, make sure you look for matched pairs, and its recommrnded that the matching is less than or equal to 5% variance on all the parameters of the two tubes.
In addition, due to the settling in factor of these tubes, it is recommended that they be run for a period of 50+ hours with a signal to break in, or what is known as "burnning-in" or "burnin", of the vaccum tube to ensure optimum performance.
PART 6. TUBE RECOMMENDATIONS & SHOOTOUTS
No. | Description | Author | Link |
1 | rb2013's tube shoot-out 2015 | @rb2013 | |
2 | List of top 5 tubes by one of the seasoned tube rollers | @satwilson | |
3 | Tribute to the Russian Voskhod Rockets | @rb2013 | http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595 |
4 | Lyr2 Stock Tubes (GE 6BZ7) and the '75 Reflektors SWGP Silver Shield | @sfo1972 | http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5325#post_11347250 |
