[sam6550a]

I'm very much aware of the dynamic range compression issue with current-issue CDs. In fact, when I rip one of my CDs, I always run the offline dynamic range programs from the company whose name currently escapes me. The measurements definitely trend downward for a lot of CDs issued within the last ten years or so. Of course, when I try to find the specific examples that I thought were pretty bad, I can't narrow them down when they're playing in the background while working. However, if anyone has CDs from Evanescence or Mylène Farmer, they are probably two of the worst offenders, at least in my personal collection.

I'd be interested, if anyone who happens to have access to CDs from those artists, if they could corroborate my hypothesis that they have compressed them to the point of severe distortion, or that they are mastered so hot that they are distorting. For a point of reference, Evanescence's "The Open Door" and "Fallen" have "official" DR values of 6 and 7, respectively. No songs have peak values of zero or greater dB. On the other hand, the majority of the songs on Mylène's "Interstellaires" have peak loudness values >0! In contrast, an original 1985 release of Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms", which I think sounds exceptional, has an "official" DR value of 16, yet three of the nine songs have peak values >0.

The best analysis software I have found for digital files is Musicscope https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/ which is easy to use and will provide more information than you could possibly absorb [at least what I am capable of absorbing]. It is reasonably priced, and will analyze all if your individual files, and create graphical or text report on each. The developer [in Germany] is helpful and responds rapidly to any inquiries. As they say down under, 'check it out'.

 

[GumbyDammit223]

*snip*

As for your albums, I'd say it was very likely they were compressed both during mix and master specifically for coloration. I can't tell you how many studio processors and effects there are just to add "color" or "life" to a sound (and how many more do something else and offer the color as an option), and how easy it is to overdo that stuff when you get your hands on it in a studio. The reality is stuff doesn't need to be compressed like it was during the loudness wars anymore because there are broadcast limits on radio and most major streaming services and they will actually turn your track down if you come in over their target (look up LUFS if you want to know more), and multiband limiters these days are starting to be tuned to be able to clamp down on the music in such a way that I can't really hear the distortion, just the lack of dynamics (not that you have to use them much on account of LUFS regulations). If you hear that stuff now, it's (more than likely) because somebody on the production wanted it to sound that way. For Evanescence in 2006, not so much, but now, it's a choice that some artists are going to make because they were inspired by Evanescence when they were younger.

Thinking about it now and considering the style of the music, I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional seeing as they are both pop flavors, albeit not of the variety of the more popular stuff today. And for clarification, I'm using both variants of the MAAT DROffline programs. The DROffline MkII definitely has a lot of measurement capability. Don't know if that makes it any better or worse.

 

[Ableza]

Unfortunately, I don't own much in the way of commercial music anymore. I have very little listening time and when I do have free time, I have to protect my ears, so not much listening for fun even then. I miss it, but then I also get to make my music and impart some of my vision on other people's, so I guess that's the tradeoff. In regards to the values over zero on some of your recordings, that can vary a bit from meter to meter. I can actually get different measures of loudness and dynamic range even from different meters by the same manufacturer (Youlean loudness meter 1.0 vs 2.0). And, mind you, those are supposed to be calibrated to the same EBU standard by default. The meters in a mastering studio could be calibrated slightly differently and to a different standard than the meter you use to measure loudness. My guess is a mastering house wouldn't be using software at the output like you and I do, but that they'd have actual hardwired meters at various points in the signal flow. That's not to say it's better or worse, just that it's different and, I have to assume, close enough to not cause any major harm. In fact, I've heard from more than one pro that they don't like to put a limiter at the end of the signal chain to catch the odd peak here and there (because limiters or clippers will distort, no matter what the manufacturer tries to tell you). Rather, they just let the signal clip in their A/D converter (a little bit here and there, not 3 db every time the kick drum hits). So, it could come down to what converter the mastering studio used.

As for your albums, I'd say it was very likely they were compressed both during mix and master specifically for coloration. I can't tell you how many studio processors and effects there are just to add "color" or "life" to a sound (and how many more do something else and offer the color as an option), and how easy it is to overdo that stuff when you get your hands on it in a studio. The reality is stuff doesn't need to be compressed like it was during the loudness wars anymore because there are broadcast limits on radio and most major streaming services and they will actually turn your track down if you come in over their target (look up LUFS if you want to know more), and multiband limiters these days are starting to be tuned to be able to clamp down on the music in such a way that I can't really hear the distortion, just the lack of dynamics (not that you have to use them much on account of LUFS regulations). If you hear that stuff now, it's (more than likely) because somebody on the production wanted it to sound that way. For Evanescence in 2006, not so much, but now, it's a choice that some artists are going to make because they were inspired by Evanescence when they were younger.

I love Evanescence but I really hope they get a new producer if they ever record another album. Someone not so in love with synth strings and pseudo orchestration, not to mention seven layers of vocal overdubs. I'd love to hear them slimmed down without all the fake strings and tricks - that they feel compelled to reproduce live I might add.

 

[Mr Rick]

When I was a kid I had a fascination with electronics, especially RF communications and audio. I was lucky enough to be employed in the industry and loved it at first. When you are very good at something you are often rewarded with promotion. Unfortunately this can lead to eventual promotion to a position that is no longer your passion. Over the years this eventually happened to me. I was no longer a technical person, I was a people person. This continued to the conclusion of my career.

But now I'm retired. I can be that kid again.

 

[winders]

That POV is a relatively recent phenomenon started by Milton Freidman (late '60s, 70s). It's led to the horrible situation we're in now where people are talking about the death of capitalism.

No, you are mischaracterizing the "Friedman Doctrine". Friedman's position was that companies should have no social responsibility to anyone but its share holders. In other words, let the shareholders decide, individually, what social interests to support.

Milton Friedman was a genius and we would do well to listen to what he had to say.

 

[Timster]

I'm very much aware of the dynamic range compression issue with current-issue CDs. In fact, when I rip one of my CDs, I always run the offline dynamic range programs from the company whose name currently escapes me. The measurements definitely trend downward for a lot of CDs issued within the last ten years or so. Of course, when I try to find the specific examples that I thought were pretty bad, I can't narrow them down when they're playing in the background while working. However, if anyone has CDs from Evanescence or Mylène Farmer, they are probably two of the worst offenders, at least in my personal collection.

I'd be interested, if anyone who happens to have access to CDs from those artists, if they could corroborate my hypothesis that they have compressed them to the point of severe distortion, or that they are mastered so hot that they are distorting. For a point of reference, Evanescence's "The Open Door" and "Fallen" have "official" DR values of 6 and 7, respectively. No songs have peak values of zero or greater dB. On the other hand, the majority of the songs on Mylène's "Interstellaires" have peak loudness values >0! In contrast, an original 1985 release of Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms", which I think sounds exceptional, has an "official" DR value of 16, yet three of the nine songs have peak values >0.

Evanescence's "Fallen", to my ears, is not quite as bad as "Open Door".... such a shame, as Fallen (specifically Bring Me To Life) was the track that dragged me back to hard rock and metal, brought me to life so to speak! I don't get it. You can get the same album on Vinyl with much better range, although I haven't heard if it really sounds better. I think that a lot of the distortion in these two albums is pre-mastering, and was crushed against the limiters in recording/mixing.

Metallica's CD release of Death Magnetic, is woeful to my ears, yet the "bootlegged" version from the Guitar Hero game was way better, much more dynamic, less crushed. Apparently newer releases are better too. I might have to check.

Nightwish's "Dark Passion Play", another example of a crushed release. Love the album/band but really struggle to listen to it for any length of time other than in the car where lower DR helps.

If the sound is crushed in the original recording/mixing, it might not be salvageable. If just in mastering, then a re-mix/master could produce a wildly different (better? ... probably ) result

Interestingly most concert DVDs/Blu-Rays I have do not have the same limits imposed on the mastering, and most of them sound excellent.

 

[Ableza]

To my ears one of the best metal recordings ever is Prong's "Cleansing." If it's compressed it's done very judiciously.

-edited to correct for the album title rather than a song title -

 

[ScottFree]

The four reasons why a man does work
1. Love
2. Duty
3. Greed
4. Fear

 

[jnak00]

Suddenly you have a company run by CPAs…a company that’s forgotten why it came to exist in the first place. A company having no fun.

Ouch. I'm a CPA, a part owner of a company run by CPAs...and we still find ways to have fun.

Great post in any case. It reminds of a TED Talk by Simon Sinek called "Start with why", Fantastic talk - you can find it on Youtube.

 

[US Blues]

I feel like this chapter should appear on bulletin boards in companies that have lost their way (which, IMO, is the majority of them).

Companies, and a first world country many of us live in.

 

[GumbyDammit223]

Evanescence's "Fallen", to my ears, is not quite as bad as "Open Door".... such a shame, as Fallen (specifically Bring Me To Life) was the track that dragged me back to hard rock and metal, brought me to life so to speak! I don't get it. You can get the same album on Vinyl with much better range, although I haven't heard if it really sounds better. I think that a lot of the distortion in these two albums is pre-mastering, and was crushed against the limiters in recording/mixing.

Metallica's CD release of Death Magnetic, is woeful to my ears, yet the "bootlegged" version from the Guitar Hero game was way better, much more dynamic, less crushed. Apparently newer releases are better too. I might have to check.

Nightwish's "Dark Passion Play", another example of a crushed release. Love the album/band but really struggle to listen to it for any length of time other than in the car where lower DR helps.

If the sound is crushed in the original recording/mixing, it might not be salvageable. If just in mastering, then a re-mix/master could produce a wildly different (better? ... probably ) result

Interestingly most concert DVDs/Blu-Rays I have do not have the same limits imposed on the mastering, and most of them sound excellent.

I'm in total agreement about "Bring Me To Life". That's the song that introduced me to E and when I got the CD I was totally surprised at what I was hearing. I loved the music, but hated the sound. I did get the LP but haven't had a chance to compare the two. Haven't heard Metallica, but I've read that that is a classic example of compression gone awry. Regarding re-mix/mastering, I've kind of assumed that any recent remasters of older music would actually sound worse. Maybe it's anecdotal from reading the loudness war information, I don't know. However, I did get the '95 remasters of Ozzy Osbourne's albums and really didn't think they sounded all that great. Admittedly I haven't heard any of that music anywhere else but the radio so I don't really have anything to compare against.

I've made this comment before: It would be great if record companies would provide the "normal" compressed version for the unwashed masses at a cut-rate price, and provide a higher-cost "audiophile" version (I hate using that term) with full dynamic range, or at least a 24-bit uncompressed bit-perfect download. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

 

[ScottFree]

Suddenly you have a company run by CPAs…a company that’s forgotten why it came to exist in the first place. A company having no fun.

 

[bagwell359]

Jason has his philosopher's hat on today.

It's really, truly a shame that we can't all work for people like Jason and places like Schiit. Reading chapters like this makes it so hard for me to ignore how utterly soul crushing my job is.

Trouble is I'm one of those people whose zeroth things don't intersect with value in any way. At least not from any way I know how to see it.

May I ask a question? Are the definitions you have for value yours, or those given to you from outside? I was a software eng, architect, mgr, and worked hard for them and my wallet. But I also went for the really nice 1/2 acre woodland garden all planted by hand full of salamanders and tree frogs and azaleas, and the family, and sometimes the high end audio. If those things were not at zero, they at least provided some balance away from the cube. Maybe that's enough for you not to feel crushed. Joy in simplicity or complexity is still joy. Simple and pure joy to you.

 

[scclimber]

After all this talk about certain speakers not being good enough to resolve the difference in electronics, at what point does the populus believe it is time to upgrade? Ie, upgrade from modi Multibit to Yggdrasil (that is on b stock right now).

 

[jseymour]

Since it is on B stock right now, the answer is right now.