[sludgeogre]

I think people are giving way too much credit to the ADCs and DACs and not enough to the engineers behind the recordings. There are metal albums that cost roughly $15k to $20k to produce which I think sound far better than albums by major studios. The key difference is that small bands are just trying to make the best recording they can. This whole discussion is totally ignoring the loudness wars and labels that are specifically making albums that sound alright on free earbuds. Look at what happend to Adele's latest album, it's alright, but nothing even close to what it could be if it were engineered with superior sound quality as the only goal. Not every musician or engineer is trying to make great sounding music, they're trying to make great SELLING music, so comparing the equipment used between the two has nothing to do with how good the album actually sounds.

 

[AudioMan612]

  I think people are giving way too much credit to the ADCs and DACs and not enough to the engineers behind the recordings. There are metal albums that cost roughly $15k to $20k to produce which I think sound far better than albums by major studios. The key difference is that small bands are just trying to make the best recording they can. This whole discussion is totally ignoring the loudness wars and labels that are specifically making albums that sound alright on free earbuds. Look at what happend to Adele's latest album, it's alright, but nothing even close to what it could be if it were engineered with superior sound quality as the only goal. Not every musician or engineer is trying to make great sounding music, they're trying to make great SELLING music, so comparing the equipment used between the two has nothing to do with how good the album actually sounds.

 
This.  The musicians and production matter 100x more than the equipment being used.

 

[AudioMan612]

I'd love a chance to compare an Yggy to something from the insanely expensive MSB Technology.  Their DAC's have always been well-regarded, but they are outrageously expensive (their cheapest model, the Analog DAC starts at $6,995, while their most expensive model, the Select DAC starts at $89,950, and additional features and options bring these prices up pretty quickly).  I say this mainly because they have been using ladder DAC's for a long time.  You can read a bit more about their DAC design here: http://www.msbtech.com/support/How_DACs_Work.php.

 

[RCBinTN]

This thread is fascinating to read.  While I am certainly not qualified nor inclined to enter the technical discussion, I do know one (1) thing.  When I upgraded my Gungnir DAC from DS to MB, for a mere $500, the SQ of my music, with the same other equipment, improved greatly.  It was certainly worth much more than $500.  Therefore, I think that Mr. Baldr knows what the heck he's talking about, and I intend to listen to him and maybe even Jason, whom I love, going forward.  You Schiit Audio guys rock, of course IMHO and FWIW and YMMV and all the rest of those acronyms.  
 
With kindest regards -
RCBinTN

 

[Byronb]

  This thread is fascinating to read.  While I am certainly not qualified nor inclined to enter the technical discussion, I do know one (1) thing.  When I upgraded my Gungnir DAC from DS to MB, for a mere $500, the SQ of my music, with the same other equipment, improved greatly.  It was certainly worth much more than $500.  Therefore, I think that Mr. Baldr knows what the heck he's talking about, and I intend to listen to him and maybe even Jason, whom I love, going forward.  You Schiit Audio guys rock, of course IMHO and FYIW and YMMV and all the rest of those acronyms.  
 
With kindest regards -
RCBinTN

+1

 

[bigro]

   
That's an interesting thought, a Ygg that had both DAC and ADC sections, altho I doubt if there would be much overlap between circuit components, so that it'd prolly be almost twice as expensive and with a 1½ sized footprint, to boot.  And flies in the face of their single function component philosophy for tailoring setups for preference and need.
 
I no longer own any vinyl, but I do like the argument of having a top quality, spelled multibit, home ADC component to transfer treasured vinyl collections to server audio files for future proofing.  Who knows how extensive that potential market still is, but we do know that vinyl collection is alive and growing...  May actually be a viable Schiit product even at yggy pricing if it can tout comparable performance. 
 
We may yet become spoiled with a plethora of audiophilic abundance.  If Mike and Jason can somehow convince themselves that they wouldn't take it in the shorts with this one.  Certainly the ADC topic is recurrent here.

Hmm, That's kind of where this started, With the Mani being such a great piece of gear even though there are countless Phono stages out there, however even stereophile had a whole write up on it and the roots it has from Mikes Phono stage over 30 years ago.  So all we pondered was a Moderately price ADC that can get a close to accurate digital representation of Records for which CD's do not exist. Somehow we are talking about mic's and pro gear and concerts.
 
So lets Take it Back to a Plain Jane ADC that will complement the Mani for those of us who want a digital version on records for which digital version do not exist. A Piece of gear that is a Mani complement . That's it, Mastering, Mixing, All of that is done. So that's is not even a factor here so it is a moot point.
 
I think it is great for those that love DS dacs and SD ADC's Awesome. That's great you work in the "pro" world. and all. I for one will put my money in the person who has designed and built some very notable products in the analog and digital world. Currawong and crew may smack my hand here but that is,  in my opinion like a college Science teacher arguing with Einstein or Newton about their own work.

 

[Baldr]

Noted.

 

[kstuart]

I think it is great for those that love DS dacs and SD ADC's Awesome. That's great you work in the "pro" world. and all.

Uh, no one said that.
 
What we said is that the listener's DAC affects their sound quality far more than the existence of any particular ADC.
 
Suppose you sell your old crappy DS DAC and buy a Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC.   This improves the sound quality of 100% of your music.
 
Now, suppose someone makes a multibit ADC and gets half the recording studios in the world to start using it on February 1st.
 
That improves the sound quality of none of the music you own.  Your existing CDs will never change at all in response to any new recording practices  in 2016.
 
The whole Schiit slogan of the mega-combo-burrito filter for 16-bit 44.1khz CDs, is that quote "it improves 99% of the music you already own."
 
No new ADC can do that.
 
Note that I'm certainly not opposed to a new multibit ADC - I hope my friend with the RME ADC would replace it with a Schiit Multibit ADC.

 

[Byronb]

  Uh, no one said that.
 
What we said is that the listener's DAC affects their sound quality far more than the existence of any particular ADC.
 
Suppose you sell your old crappy DS DAC and buy a Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC.   This improves the sound quality of 100% of your music.
 
Now, suppose someone makes a multibit ADC and gets half the recording studios in the world to start using it on February 1st.
 
That improves the sound quality of none of the music you own.  Your existing CDs will never change at all in response to any new recording practices  in 2016.
 
The whole Schiit slogan of the mega-combo-burrito filter for 16-bit 44.1khz CDs, is that quote "it improves 99% of the music you already own."
 
No new ADC can do that.
 
Note that I'm certainly not opposed to a new multibit ADC - I hope my friend with the RME ADC would replace it with a Schiit Multibit ADC.

Well said.

 

[sludgeogre]

 
What we said is that the listener's DAC affects their sound quality far more than the existence of any particular ADC.

 
That's exactly what I'm trying to say as well. I love my Modi and Bifrost because they extract so much more information from the music. They're not trying to gussy it up and dress it up all nice and pretty. It's just there for you to enjoy, and the better the DAC you buy, the closer you get to hearing everything that's there. No other DAC I've tried is like that. Sure, they sound good, but they don't sound natural. I cannot wait until I can afford the Multibit upgrade. It's going to be glorious.

 

[bigro]

  Uh, no one said that.
 
What we said is that the listener's DAC affects their sound quality far more than the existence of any particular ADC.
 
Suppose you sell your old crappy DS DAC and buy a Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC.   This improves the sound quality of 100% of your music.
The whole Schiit slogan of the mega-combo-burrito filter for 16-bit 44.1khz CDs, is that quote "it improves 99% of the music you already own."
 
Now, suppose someone makes a multibit ADC and gets half the recording studios in the world to start using it on February 1st.
 
That improves the sound quality of none of the music you own.  Your existing CDs will never change at all in response to any new recording practices  in 2016.
 
No new ADC can do that.
 
Note that I'm certainly not opposed to a new multibit ADC - I hope my friend with the RME ADC would replalcle it with a Schiit Multibit ADC.

Since we are on what people said.
Vinyl to Digital. That's where we started this adventure in to ADC's and that's That's where I still am. No recording studios, No Cd's and NO live bands .
 
DougD started with a simple request
 
"Feature request for the Mani-2 phono amp ....  built-in ADC and USB output."
 
Now part of My last post.

So lets Take it Back to a Plain Jane ADC that will complement the Mani for those of us who want a digital version on records for which digital version do not exist. A Piece of gear that is a Mani complement .

i do not think any one wanted a debate we mentioned nothing other than Vinyl to Digital. With that. I am going to the Mani thread and the one that Mike Moffat has started. I would rather Read Einsteins thoughts than the misinterpreted ones by the no name science teachers.

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.Watchnerd is brilliant,
 
I'm wit y'all Schiit folks but reading this guy is like reading Bob Katz.  
 
I encountered Christopher Hitchens (once, on his side of a debate ) where he tore to shreds, e-gads the guy was devastating in a debate.  Watchnerd is like that! 
 
Besides, when everyone completely agrees, only "one" person is doing the thinking.  
 
This was one of the guys at Tyll's Big Sound, wasn't he, the Watch guy?, hav-ta ask Tyll.
 
Phew, I wish I lived next door to him, what an education a person could pick-up in a brief time, he seems to have rare insight!, someone asked if he was a Car Salesman ( I had to laugh, we wouldn't hire salespeople that smart ).  
 
Martin Logans he has, hmm and he offers sound reasons for using and owning Balanced!  Maybe my next Amp should be a MJ2 ( I like his reasons for choosing it over the Lyr2 ) despite not feeling the need for it's immense power ( although I love the Asgard2 , wadda Amp!).  
 
I can't imagine how our Mr.Watchnerd found his way to this Site but I'm happy he's here, I wish more of the Pro-Audio folks were interested in our little discussions. The more we understand the better.  
 
Geez, he's look'n at Venn diagrams in Consumer Audio Contexts!  My CEO would love this guy! ( I wonder if he likes slush & overcast skys ?), I'll have to ask if we're doing Cloud stuff with software.
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[disastermouse]

Mr.Watchnerd is brilliant,

I'm wit y'all Schiit folks but reading this guy is like reading Bob Katz.  

I encountered Christopher Hitchens (once, on his side of a debate ) where he tore to shreds, e-gads the guy was devastating in a debate.  Watchnerd is like that! 

Besides, when everyone completely agrees, only "one" person is doing the thinking.  

This was one of the guys at Tyll's Big Sound, wasn't he, the Watch guy?, hav-ta ask Tyll.

Phew, I wish I lived next door to him, what an education a person could pick-up in a brief time, he seems to have rare insight!, someone asked if he was a Car Salesman ( I had to laugh, we wouldn't hire salespeople that smart ).  

Martin Logans he has, hmm and he offers sound reasons for using and owning Balanced!  Maybe my next Amp should be a MJ2 ( I like his reasons for choosing it over the Lyr2 ) despite not feeling the need for it's immense power ( although I love the Asgard2 , wadda Amp!).  

I can't imagine how our Mr.Watchnerd found his way to this Site but I'm happy he's here, I wish more of the Pro-Audio folks were interested in our little discussions. The more we understand the better.  

Geez, he's look'n at Venn diagrams in Consumer Audio Contexts!  My CEO would love this guy! ( I wonder if he likes slush & overcast skys ?), I'll have to ask if we're doing Cloud stuff with software.

Tony in Michigan

It's the potholes and unbelievably crappy roads he'd have to get used to. I'm a Yooper - they're even worse up here, eh?

Also, why are the deer such ninjas during hunting season but can't avoid hitting a car going 55mph?

 

[tonykaz]

Yoopers & Deer,
 
I'm from Manitowoc and not at all following the Deer thing or hunting.  We do have Deers all around our Michigan neighborhood, I toss em Corn Cobs & Carrots but leave them alone otherwise.  My Landscape has little to feed them but they seem to thrive on my neighbors flowers and such.  
 
I know two lads that returned to the Frozen North, everyone else chooses Sunny Florida for the winter months starting in October thru to May 1st., I intend on joining them in watching Sunsets over the Gulf of Mexico & Bone fishing.  
 
This Schiit site sure seems to have it's share of interesting folks!  
 
Tony in Michigan
 
ps.  That Stereophile reviewer  Herb Richert says that Technics's re-entry into Consumer Audio is the Biggest thing happening for years 2015-2016, I wonder if anyone here finds it in their heart to agree? 

 

[Currawong]

@bigro Heck no. I don't think anyone has any complaints (at least until Mike gets sick of being hassled to make another ADC).