[Oveja Negra]

And the newly crowned champion of the longest Schiit post: @Oveja Negra! @ArmchairPhilosopher, it's time for a sabbatical so you can regain your title. Besides, the last time you posted about work, it sounded like you needed a break.

I feel honored but I'm not worthy of being compared to ArmchairPhilosopher, the master of the essays in Head-fi. In comparison I'm just an amateur, he deserves all the praise.

 

[mystaiced]

Now I don’t know if I want the Gjallarhorn or Emotiva A2m. Any thoughts?

Depends on what your needs are. And what speakers you have. I just picked up the Emotiva A2m(the m is for mini), lol. It’s a solid budget amp and has a headphone jack that can be switched to direct drive mode and run directly from the speaker outputs for more power for hard to drive headphones. I haven’t tried installing the jumpers yet for direct drive mode yet, but plan to try it with some hifiman Sundaras. But when funds allow, I will be getting a Freya with monoblocked Gjallarhorns, which will be better suited for my Bifrost 2/64 balanced setup. FWIW

 

[StimpyWan]

The KEF's not ported? I didn't know that.

Oh wait, quick check on their website tells me that they (since long ago) still use the Acoustic Bass Radiators principle. In the old days (when they had only a few drivers to choose from) they used the B139 woofer for that role.

Yup. The middle woofer is active. The upper and lower woofers are passive radiators.

 

[US Blues]

The world is falling apart:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64819400

Good to see you, Doc!

My takeaway from the article is that just as one should not purchase real estate near a busy airport, one should not purchase real estate near a proper distillery.

 

[jonathan c]

The world is falling apart:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64819400

And if worse comes to worst, residents will have to be transported by helicasket … :

 

[Cliffh93]

So since I found the Qobuz app for Samsung, I thought I'd throw some spare equipment at it and see what I had. In the chain:

• Samsung Smart TV, a few years old
• Modi+ DAC
• Magni+ PreAmp
• Musical Fideltiy M1 PWR Power Amp (to be replaced with Rekkr/Gjallarhorn once they ship)

I connected the source via TosLink. Once plugged in, both TV speakers and Amp were playing, and for me this is a good thing since there is no remote attenuation available from Schiit in a small form factor (yet). If I want Qobuz, I simply mute the TV speakers via its supplied remote, and walk across the room to adjust the Magni (helps me get my steps in). For TV watching, which I don't do a lot of, then unmute the TV speakers and switch off the Amp.

I know I could change the TV output settings, but when I do watch TV, I mute the commercials, and no way I'm going to take that many steps. This is also spouse friendly, since she had no interest in Qobuz. Yes, I know there's a ton of good, inexpensive Chinese equipment that provide remote attenuation and muting, but I just don't want to go there right now.

 

[StimpyWan]

And if worse comes to worst, residents will have to be transported by helicasket … :

 

[Ableza]

Is there room on the Schiit Sine Wave for some engineering pedantry?

I'll go ahead anyway.


@Jason Stoddard, the Rekkr FAQ states, "A 95 dB efficient speaker will be 10x as loud as an 85dB efficient speaker for the same power input." This is not the case.

The 95 dB speaker requires 1/10th the power to match the output of the 85 dB speaker.

The 85 dB speaker requires 10x the power to match the output of the 95 dB speaker.

But "10x as loud" wanders into the realm of psychoacoustics. Harvey Fletcher (of Fletcher-Munson curve fame) determined that a 9 dB (or 9 phon) increase in loudness level is needed for a tone to sound "twice as loud". Assuming that this rule of thumb reasonably translates to complex waveforms, I think it is pretty safe to say that "10x as loud" is overstating the difference between 95 dB and 85 dB speakers.

A change in sound pressure level from 85 dB to 95 dB is an increase in pressure by 3.16x. At best, you could assert that the 95 dB speaker puts out ~3x the intensity of the 85 dB speaker for the same power input. But the safest thing to say may be that the 95 dB speaker is a little more than twice as loud as the 85 dB speaker.


Anyone still here?

<crickets>

I'll turn off the lights when I leave...

I used to have these discussions with clients all the time when I was in the car audio world. People had a difficult time accepting that their brand new 1000-watt amplifier would not be 10X as loud as their old 100-watt amp. And understanding loudspeaker sensitivity, let alone efficiency? Fergetaboutit.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

The KEF's not ported? I didn't know that.

Oh wait, quick check on their website tells me that they (since long ago) still use the Acoustic Bass Radiators principle. In the old days (when they had only a few drivers to choose from) they used the B139 woofer for that role.

Nope, they are not. At least not the floor standers of the Q Series. The speaker cabinet is separated into two chambers, one for the bass driver and passive radiators, and one for the Uni-Q driver. Both chambers are sealed.
KEF offers plugs for the ports that the bookshelf versions have, but I have no first-hand experience whether using those plugs would be a good idea.

Personally, I can't stand ports. I find this a little difficult to explain in proper terms, but ported speakers usually sound too boomy to me. Especially front-ported ones. Some of the less-well designed ones can even get a bit "huffy," meaning I can hear the air being pushed into and out of the cabinet. And while rear-ported speakers tend to be a tad less boomy and "huffy," they are always a pain to position well, I feel like.

Meanwhile, I can push the KEFs pretty much all the way back to the wall (I keep them about an inch away from the wall to avoid physical coupling) and hear very little difference in their bass response when compared to what they sound like a few feet away from the wall.
(Unless you put them into a corner. But that's a bad idea with any speaker, ported or otherwise.)

I have a very well recorded upright bass scale (track 7 on Paul McGowan's The Audiophile's Guide - Reference Music) and a few other tracks (especially "Rachmaninoff: Prélude in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 3 No. 2" on "Midnight at Notre-Dame" by Olivier Latry or "Richter: Dream 1" on "Sleep" by Max Richter, among others) that I use to test the flatness and/or "boomyness" of a speaker and room's bass response, and they never get boomy no matter where I place them. At least not in the room they're in right now. (Fully carpeted floor, fully filled book shelves on the left and vertically slatted window blinds on the right to scatter first reflections, and a vaulted ceiling that is at an angle that just so happens to prevent first reflections to the sweet spot entirely. No bass traps or any other form of acoustic treatment.)

For my Q950, KEF states a frequency response of 44Hz-28kHz at ±3dB, and that they would extend down to 38Hz at -6dB rolloff. I've never measured that because I don't have the right tools for that kind of thing, but that seems about right.
Although psycho-acoustically speaking, I sometimes feel like they might be low-balling a little and they go lower. Somewhat rolled off, yes, but I'm pretty sure they happily extend below 38Hz.

So, no. Without a sub, they won't quite blow your better three-quarter's hair back when watching a Christopher Nolan flick. But when driven by a pair of Tyrs and with Freya+'s volume pot merely at noon and tube gain enabled, they're still more than capable to have you break the terms of your lease in no time.

And for music, they're truly fantastic either way you look at it. Especially when you keep in mind that they're just $2,200 for the pair.

Why do the passive radiators work so well, though? I have no clue. At least intuitively, they really shouldn't, right?
I mean, they appear to move nearly as much as the active driver. But since they're driven by the pressure difference the active driver creates inside the chamber, they should move in the opposite direction of the active driver, right? Meaning, when the active driver's membrane travels into the cabinet, the pressure inside the chamber rises and pushes the two passive drivers' membranes out. So at least in theory, they should move more or less phase-inverted to the active driver. But shouldn't that, at least to a degree, cancel the sound pressure the active driver emits outside of the cabinet?
Intuitively, I would have to say: Yes?
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
I suppose that the air inside the cabinet as well as the inertial mass of the passive membranes together act as a damper that's delaying the movement of the passive membranes just enough to avoid the cancellation of the pressure waves the active membrane creates in front of the cabinet.
Or something.
But if that actually is what's happening, then shouldn't the effectiveness or resonance of that whole dampening effect be highly frequency-dependent and thus create dips and booms along the bass driver's frequency band? Because if it is, I really don't hear it.

Ugh, now my brain hurts. I'm clearly not smart enough to fully understand the physics of speakers…

X2HR’s have arrived! Decided I’m going to keep them in the box for now until I clean up my listening space because I absolutely despise the idea of a crap ton of dust going onto the pads

The headphone looks beautiful as hell though.

Congrats, and enjoy!

Completely agree with you on the topic of dust. Especially because I live in a god-damned freaking desert…

Cat hair, however, is acoustically beneficial. That's a fact and everybody knows that, so don't anyone even try to argue against that!

And the newly crowned champion of the longest Schiit post: @Oveja Negra! @ArmchairPhilosopher, it's time for a sabbatical so you can regain your title. Besides, the last time you posted about work, it sounded like you needed a break.

I feel honored but I'm not worthy of being compared to ArmchairPhilosopher, the master of the essays in Head-fi. In comparison I'm just an amateur, he deserves all the praise.

All good!
I never intended to be declared the master of the essay in the first place.
I simply don't know when to shut up, that's all.

 

[KoshNaranek]

With 21 watts feeding the 98dB Lores at 9 feet, I get 108.5 dB. Sounds about right....Marilyn Manson doesn't really come alive until 105 dB or so.

 

[OldRoadToad]

X2HR’s have arrived! Decided I’m going to keep them in the box for now until I clean up my listening space because I absolutely despise the idea of a crap ton of dust going onto the pads

The headphone looks beautiful as hell though.

Looks matter...HUZZAH! Well done indeed!

ORT

 

[jonathan c]

With 21 watts feeding the 98dB Lores at 9 feet, I get 108.5 dB. Sounds about right....Marilyn Manson doesn't really come alive until 105 dB or so.

Then, at that 108.5 dB, you deserve ‘sonic encounters of the worst kind’: Ray Conniff & Orchestra, Mantovani & Strings… …

 

[OldRoadToad]

Nope, they are not. At least not the floor standers of the Q Series. The speaker cabinet is separated into two chambers, one for the bass driver and passive radiators, and one for the Uni-Q driver. Both chambers are sealed.
KEF offers plugs for the ports that the bookshelf versions have, but I have no first-hand experience whether using those plugs would be a good idea.

Personally, I can't stand ports. I find this a little difficult to explain in proper terms, but ported speakers usually sound too boomy to me. Especially front-ported ones. Some of the less-well designed ones can even get a bit "huffy," meaning I can hear the air being pushed into and out of the cabinet. And while rear-ported speakers tend to be a tad less boomy and "huffy," they are always a pain to position well, I feel like.

Meanwhile, I can push the KEFs pretty much all the way back to the wall (I keep them about an inch away from the wall to avoid physical coupling) and hear very little difference in their bass response when compared to what they sound like a few feet away from the wall.
(Unless you put them into a corner. But that's a bad idea with any speaker, ported or otherwise.)

I have a very well recorded upright bass scale (track 7 on Paul McGowan's The Audiophile's Guide - Reference Music) and a few other tracks (especially "Rachmaninoff: Prélude in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 3 No. 2" on "Midnight at Notre-Dame" by Olivier Latry or "Richter: Dream 1" on "Sleep" by Max Richter, among others) that I use to test the flatness and/or "boomyness" of a speaker and room's bass response, and they never get boomy no matter where I place them. At least not in the room they're in right now. (Fully carpeted floor, fully filled book shelves on the left and vertically slatted window blinds on the right to scatter first reflections, and a vaulted ceiling that is at an angle that just so happens to prevent first reflections to the sweet spot entirely. No bass traps or any other form of acoustic treatment.)

For my Q950, KEF states a frequency response of 44Hz-28kHz at ±3dB, and that they would extend down to 38Hz at -6dB rolloff. I've never measured that because I don't have the right tools for that kind of thing, but that seems about right.
Although psycho-acoustically speaking, I sometimes feel like they might be low-balling a little and they go lower. Somewhat rolled off, yes, but I'm pretty sure they happily extend below 38Hz.

So, no. Without a sub, they won't quite blow your better three-quarter's hair back when watching a Christopher Nolan flick. But when driven by a pair of Tyrs and with Freya+'s volume pot merely at noon and tube gain enabled, they're still more than capable to have you break the terms of your lease in no time.

And for music, they're truly fantastic either way you look at it. Especially when you keep in mind that they're just $2,200 for the pair.

Why do the passive radiators work so well, though? I have no clue. At least intuitively, they really shouldn't, right?
I mean, they appear to move nearly as much as the active driver. But since they're driven by the pressure difference the active driver creates inside the chamber, they should move in the opposite direction of the active driver, right? Meaning, when the active driver's membrane travels into the cabinet, the pressure inside the chamber rises and pushes the two passive drivers' membranes out. So at least in theory, they should move more or less phase-inverted to the active driver. But shouldn't that, at least to a degree, cancel the sound pressure the active driver emits outside of the cabinet?
Intuitively, I would have to say: Yes?
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
I suppose that the air inside the cabinet as well as the inertial mass of the passive membranes together act as a damper that's delaying the movement of the passive membranes just enough to avoid the cancellation of the pressure waves the active membrane creates in front of the cabinet.
Or something.
But if that actually is what's happening, then shouldn't the effectiveness or resonance of that whole dampening effect be highly frequency-dependent and thus create dips and booms along the bass driver's frequency band? Because if it is, I really don't hear it.

Ugh, now my brain hurts. I'm clearly not smart enough to fully understand the physics of speakers…


Congrats, and enjoy!

Completely agree with you on the topic of dust. Especially because I live in a god-damned freaking desert…

Cat hair, however, is acoustically beneficial. That's a fact and everybody knows that, so don't anyone even try to argue against that!



All good!
I never intended to be declared the master of the essay in the first place.
I simply don't know when to shut up, that's all.

The Q950s in black or white are beautiful. In walnut? Stunningly so. I really like "piano black". I nearly bought a pair of Q950s when they were on sale for, I think it was...$899 each and did not get them only because I still did not have that much to spend on a pair of speakers. I need to have saved the money before I can charge something on my credit card. It is just me as I do not wish to ever make the mistake of monetarily overextending my self...Again.

ORT

 

[JanMc]

If we are listening to Mantovani & Strings then we should also get some Esquivel in there!

 

[jaxtherogue]

I wanted to post some quick impressions of my newly arrived Gjallarhorn with the KEF Q150 speakers. Some caveats: 1) this is my desktop system and has suboptimal speaker positioning; 2) the listening I do here is non-critical- this system is for your typical PC-based stuff (youtube, gaming, podcasts, etc) and some music as this is the workstation on which I do my music organization. I am listening in nearfield, 3-4 feet from the speakers.

Gear: PC > Bifrost 2/64 > Jotunheim 2 > Gjallarhorn > KEF Q150

As someone who is driving Magnepan speakers with Tyrs in my other system I was a bit concerned about the 86db sensitivity Q150s with the 10 watt Gjallarhorn (even though the math said I was being silly). For my requirements, I need not have been concerned. During my sessions I was averaging around 70db with peaks up to 84db which is about my personal comfort max for my desktop system. Jotunheim volume knob hovering around 11 o'clock (in the low gain mode). So as far as loudness, it was more than enough and the math says I am not even hitting above 1 watt.

As for how it sounds: I changed a couple things when I picked up the Gjallarhorn. I went from active Audioengine a5+ to the KEF Q150 and from an Asgard to the Jotunheim. So these impressions are not just about the Gjallarhorn, but the above changes as well. I am VERY happy with the results. Nice clarity without being harsh, voices sound beautiful, low-level details are present and bass is surprisingly good, though obvious this only dips so low. The Q150 never sounded strained- dynamics are forceful but natural. I might build a similar stack at another location in the house. The Gjallarhorn/Q150 is a significant upgrade to the active Audioengine 5+ speakers, and I was relatively happy with them before.

TLDR: For nearfield listening, plenty loud, very good dynamics and beautiful detailed sound. Worth every penny. Non music stuff like youtube, podcasts, gaming all also check out great and with better imaging to boot.

Music used for this session includes:
Paul Simon - Graceland
Massive Attack - Messanine
Radiohead - In Rainbows
Behemoth - The Satanist
Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Sessions
Christian McBride - NIght Train
Holly Cole - Temptation
Nils Lofgren - Acoustic Live
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
Dayan Kai/Keith Greeninger - Blue Coast Collection