[bcowen]

Cool? That thing would get hotter than h*ll on a Sunday afternoon!

So you've been to @Ripper2860 's house too?

 

[bcowen]

Not being familiar with the room and the speakers that were used, some things I can not be certain about. And so it wouldn't be fair to Dave, Ivana, and Singularity if I posted those thoughts here.
What I heard was very enjoyable, though, and I suspect that a LOT of people will be VERY happy with Singularity once it gets released. About that I have no doubt.

One thing I will say that may or may not raise an eyebrow or two among those who were there yesterday evening: I think Singularity will turn out to be a DAC technology that might receive a very, VERY warm welcome with people who enjoy their music on a predominantly emotional level.

Wait....you mean there's some other reason we do this?

 

[Paladin79]

Wait....you mean there's some other reason we do this?

My thought exactly. I have heard plenty of DAC's that just sounded flat, lacking the warmth and musicality I search for.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Wait....you mean there's some other reason we do this?

Yes

I have essentially three "modes" of listening, and I'm sure this applies to most of us as well:

1) Depending on the mood I'm in, I sometimes listen to music for the emotional experience alone. That can either have the intended effect to relive a memory, to create a mood, or to sustain a mood I'm already in.

2) Other times, it's just for background "noise." Depending on the music I pick, it creates sort of an environment that makes certain tasks easier, or at least more enjoyable.

3) And then there are times where I feel like listening to music for its artistic value, for the craftsmanship and amazing detail contained in it — especially when it comes to symphonies. It's like discovering new details and brush strokes each time you revisit a favorite painting. (“Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.” – Jean-Michel Basquiat)

Mode 2 makes up about 65% of my listening, mode 3 makes up about 25%. Mode 1 is rather rare for me.
Most people I know do their listening in modes 1 and 2 predominantly—with self-proclaimed audiophiles leaning towards mode 1 and "normal" people leaning more towards mode 2—and 3 generally seems to be relatively rare. At least to the extend that I enjoy mode 3.

Pretty much every DAC can do mode 2. Even some random bluetooth speaker will do if need be.
As far as modes 1 and 3 are concerned, and of the DACs that I know intimately well, Modius is more than adequate for mode 1. Bifrost 2 outright shines for mode 1, and so does Gumby. Gumby is also a very capable DAC for mode 3. Yggy OG absolutely kills in all three modes.

So, based on what I heard myself, and based on the reaction I saw in others, I suspect that Singularity will be especially appreciated by folks who see themselves reflected in that first mode of listening. Which, I think, should be the vast majority. Hence my suspicion that most people will be very, VERY happy with Singularity.

 

[XERO1]

“Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.” – Jean-Michel Basquiat

Wow. What a great quote. I love it.

 

[Plautus001]

I suspect that Singularity will be especially appreciated by folks who see themselves reflected in that first mode of listening. Which, I think, should be the vast majority. Hence my suspicion that most people will be very, VERY happy with Singularity.

Please pardon my ignorance, I did not watch the meet on YouTube yet, but what kind of "box" was Singularity in? Any hints on price? Your impressions have my interest very peaked and if I can afford it, I'll order it... whenever it is available.

 

[XERO1]

Please pardon my ignorance, I did not watch the meet on YouTube yet, but what kind of "box" was Singularity in? Any hints on price? Your impressions have my interest very peaked and if I can afford it, I'll order it... whenever it is available.

There was no box! It was just the raw board which had a data bus connector that allowed Dave to swap out a couple different daughter boards. I think he said one had everything running on a single FPGA and the other one had some of the code running on a FPGA and some of it running on some other kind of DSP chip (I think, don't quote me on this). It was still an early prototype.

From what I understood from an earlier conversation I had with Jason, it won't be launched with the cheapest version of it, or the most expensive. So it will be somewhere in the middle price wise. At least I believe that's the plan as of right now. And I think they're hoping to launch it sometime in 2023, at the earliest, so it's still a ways off.

 

[Zachik]

Yes

I have essentially three "modes" of listening, and I'm sure this applies to most of us as well:

1) Depending on the mood I'm in, I sometimes listen to music for the emotional experience alone. That can either have the intended effect to relive a memory, to create a mood, or to sustain a mood I'm already in.

2) Other times, it's just for background "noise." Depending on the music I pick, it creates sort of an environment that makes certain tasks easier, or at least more enjoyable.

3) And then there are times where I feel like listening to music for its artistic value, for the craftsmanship and amazing detail contained in it — especially when it comes to symphonies. It's like discovering new details and brush strokes each time you revisit a favorite painting. (“Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.” – Jean-Michel Basquiat)

Mode 2 makes up about 65% of my listening, mode 3 makes up about 25%. Mode 1 is rather rare for me.
Most people I know do their listening in modes 1 and 2 predominantly—with self-proclaimed audiophiles leaning towards mode 1 and "normal" people leaning more towards mode 2—and 3 generally seems to be relatively rare. At least to the extend that I enjoy mode 3.

Pretty much every DAC can do mode 2. Even some random bluetooth speaker will do if need be.
As far as modes 1 and 3 are concerned, and of the DACs that I know intimately well, Modius is more than adequate for mode 1. Bifrost 2 outright shines for mode 1, and so does Gumby. Gumby is also a very capable DAC for mode 3. Yggy OG absolutely kills in all three modes.

So, based on what I heard myself, and based on the reaction I saw in others, I suspect that Singularity will be especially appreciated by folks who see themselves reflected in that first mode of listening. Which, I think, should be the vast majority. Hence my suspicion that most people will be very, VERY happy with Singularity.

Huh! I always thought music is just made for testing gear... supplementing the 1KHz test tone.

 

[corndog71]

They also said it likely wouldn’t fit in a modi package but possibly in a modius sized box.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Please pardon my ignorance, I did not watch the meet on YouTube yet, but what kind of "box" was Singularity in? Any hints on price? Your impressions have my interest very peaked and if I can afford it, I'll order it... whenever it is available.

The box that Singularity entered and left the building in was — and @bcowen will appreciate this — some random blue cardboard box.

Why? Because…

(Screenshot taken from the stream at around the 5:00 mark)

As you can see, Singularity isn't an actual product yet. It's a VERY early prototype. I think Dave mentioned to me that it's the first prototype that didn't sound like crap. The final product might actually sound different to the incarnation we listened to this Thursday.

The green board you see in the screenshot is the size of a Bifrost mainboard. It contains the power source, the Unison implementation, and the output filter. I'm not entirely sure what the red board does, but I believe that it's housing the microcontroller that's managing the DAC overall. But I can't be sure since I didn't look at it closely enough while I was there, and the video is too blurry to make out the exact chip that's on it. (Looks like an EEPROM for the bootloader/firmware, and an ARM-based microcontroller to me, plus some other supporting components.) The white board is a standard off-the-shelf FPGA development board, and it's what contains the DAC's main "brain box," meaning the actual delta sigma digital to analog converter implementation that Dave and Ivana wrote.

And the whole thing was literally just sitting on some random paperback book on top of the subwoofer. There's no case yet, not even a first prototype of one. Hence the "came in and out of the Schiitr in a cardboard box," because that's literally all it was.

I believe that a viewer asked during the stream if they might be able to fit it into a case the size of Bifrost, and Dave was cautiously optimistic that they could get it to fit.



Please note that everything that follows is pure conjecture on my part, none of the following was mentioned or even just hinted at during the stream or talked about at the SchiitrMeet. (Unless I missed it, which is of course always possible. There were a lot of interesting conversations to keep track of going on left and right. )

So, personally? I would expect something more like a Freya. — Meaning a case with the footprint of Gungnir, but the height of a Freya. I don't see the Gungnir case get used for that because of that case's complexity and cost of assembly and manufacture. Freya's case looks nice, is simpler to produce and to assemble, large enough to fit a board big enough to house all the parts that Singularity might need, and it's tall enough for a decent transformer or two.

I'm pretty sure you're looking at something that will eventually become Gungnir DS's spiritual successor in sound quality, size, and price range. Once that Gungnir DS successor has become an actual product and receives enough attention from potential and actual buyers, I think the next step will be to simplify and in a way "miniaturize" what they have to make Singularity fit into the cases and the price ranges for first a DS Bifrost, and then maybe even a Modi. But keep in mind that part of what makes Singularity work is not just the FPGA implementation, but also the custom filter. Which means lots of discrete parts and not just a single, pre-fabricated third-party chip, so I wouldn't expect Singularity to ever become a full Modi 3 replacement, at least not in price.

As for when the first implementation of Singularity might become available? You've seen the board, and you know Schiit. So I'd say somewhere around mid to late 2024 — at the earliest.

But again: Complete conjecture. Just talking out of my a$$ here. Expect everything I just wrote to be entirely wrong, misguided, opinionated, and plain out dumb. Only the folks at Schiit know what they know, and even to them it's still just an early prototype.



In short:
My main takeaway from Singularity was that it's a "can we even do it" moon shot. Nothing less, but also nothing more. It's not a product, or a replacement for a product. Yet.
What it is instead is a glass of ice water that's being handed to a company that has just spent two years in literal supply chain hell. As such, Singularity is a DAC-shaped sigh of relieve. Singularity is Schiit's life insurance that they won't be forced out of business if one or all of their remaining or potential DS chip suppliers goes tits up, sets itself ablaze again, or otherwise turns batschiit crazy. For the time being, Schiit's DS DACs will remain what they are. None of the existing DS products look like they will be replaced with a Singularity implementation any time soon.
The only exception to that that I can see right now is Gungnir DS, because it's already dead. The gap it left behind in Schiit's DAC lineup seems to be a neat one to try this crazy home-brewed DS implementation out in. Just to see what happens and how this thing gets accepted by customers and pundits, without cannibalizing existing sales. And then you go from there.



Edit:
Oh, and by the way? If it were up to Dave, none of Schiit's DACs would come in a case. Dave told us after the stream that he prefers the way the DACs sound "bare", with no metal around them. What he does at home is to just stick some shielding and electrical tape over components that need shielding or electrical insulation (see the power switch in the screenshot above for an example), and that's it. Apparently, this results in a cleaner sound. Or so he says.
A real shame that the FCC, the CPSC, and Schiit's own legal eagles all have other priorities, like "public safety" and other such nonsense.

 

[bcowen]

The box that Singularity entered and left the building in was — and @bcowen will appreciate this — some random blue cardboard box.

No wonder even the prototype sounds good! They even got the color right. Schiit has their schiit together, as usual.

 

[45longcolt]

Had a great time (and wine) with everyone last night at the Schittr!

It was impossible for me to judge it's SQ in the room they were doing the demo in (the room is literally a small cube, with the speakers in the corners). But I'm interested in Singularity because I know that good and even great sounding D/S DACs do exist, but I have yet to hear one that costs less than a couple grand. So if Mr. Multibit (Mike) is willing to put his seal of approval on a D/S DAC that he helped develop, I can't wait to give it a try.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun chatting with everyone. Looking forward to doing it again!

BTW, I had to snap a pic of the artwork that was hanging on the bathroom wall (of all places). That Schiit belongs in a gallery!!

This explains so much...

 

[XERO1]

The only exception to that that I can see right now is Gungnir DS, because it's already dead. The gap it left behind in Schiit's DAC lineup seems to be a neat one to try this crazy home-brewed DS implementation out in. Just to see what happens and how this thing gets accepted by customers and pundits, without cannibalizing existing sales. And then you go from there.

I think you might be onto something there....

 

[StimpyWan]

The box that Singularity entered and left the building in was — and @bcowen will appreciate this — some random blue cardboard box.

Why? Because…



(Screenshot taken from the stream at around the 5:00 mark)

As you can see, Singularity isn't an actual product yet. It's a VERY early prototype. I think Dave mentioned to me that it's the first prototype that didn't sound like crap. The final product might actually sound different to the incarnation we listened to this Thursday.

The green board you see in the screenshot is the size of a Bifrost mainboard. It contains the power source, the Unison implementation, and the output filter. I'm not entirely sure what the red board does, but I believe that it's housing the microcontroller that's managing the DAC overall. But I can't be sure since I didn't look at it closely enough while I was there, and the video is too blurry to make out the exact chip that's on it. (Looks like an EEPROM for the bootloader/firmware, and an ARM-based microcontroller to me, plus some other supporting components.) The white board is a standard off-the-shelf FPGA development board, and it's what contains the DAC's main "brain box," meaning the actual delta sigma digital to analog converter implementation that Dave and Ivana wrote.

And the whole thing was literally just sitting on some random paperback book on top of the subwoofer. There's no case yet, not even a first prototype of one. Hence the "came in and out of the Schiitr in a cardboard box," because that's literally all it was.

I believe that a viewer asked during the stream if they might be able to fit it into a case the size of Bifrost, and Dave was cautiously optimistic that they could get it to fit.



Please note that everything that follows is pure conjecture on my part, none of the following was mentioned or even just hinted at during the stream or talked about at the SchiitrMeet. (Unless I missed it, which is of course always possible. There were a lot of interesting conversations to keep track of going on left and right. )

So, personally? I would expect something more like a Freya. — Meaning a case with the footprint of Gungnir, but the height of a Freya. I don't see the Gungnir case get used for that because of that case's complexity and cost of assembly and manufacture. Freya's case looks nice, is simpler to produce and to assemble, large enough to fit a board big enough to house all the parts that Singularity might need, and it's tall enough for a decent transformer or two.

I'm pretty sure you're looking at something that will eventually become Gungnir DS's spiritual successor in sound quality, size, and price range. Once that Gungnir DS successor has become an actual product and receives enough attention from potential and actual buyers, I think the next step will be to simplify and in a way "miniaturize" what they have to make Singularity fit into the cases and the price ranges for first a DS Bifrost, and then maybe even a Modi. But keep in mind that part of what makes Singularity work is not just the FPGA implementation, but also the custom filter. Which means lots of discrete parts and not just a single, pre-fabricated third-party chip, so I wouldn't expect Singularity to ever become a full Modi 3 replacement, at least not in price.

As for when the first implementation of Singularity might become available? You've seen the board, and you know Schiit. So I'd say somewhere around mid to late 2024 — at the earliest.

But again: Complete conjecture. Just talking out of my a$$ here. Expect everything I just wrote to be entirely wrong, misguided, opinionated, and plain out dumb. Only the folks at Schiit know what they know, and even to them it's still just an early prototype.



In short:
My main takeaway from Singularity was that it's a "can we even do it" moon shot. Nothing less, but also nothing more. It's not a product, or a replacement for a product. Yet.
What it is instead is a glass of ice water that's being handed to a company that has just spent two years in literal supply chain hell. As such, Singularity is a DAC-shaped sigh of relieve. Singularity is Schiit's life insurance that they won't be forced out of business if one or all of their remaining or potential DS chip suppliers goes tits up, sets itself ablaze again, or otherwise turns batschiit crazy. For the time being, Schiit's DS DACs will remain what they are. None of the existing DS products look like they will be replaced with a Singularity implementation any time soon.
The only exception to that that I can see right now is Gungnir DS, because it's already dead. The gap it left behind in Schiit's DAC lineup seems to be a neat one to try this crazy home-brewed DS implementation out in. Just to see what happens and how this thing gets accepted by customers and pundits, without cannibalizing existing sales. And then you go from there.



Edit:
Oh, and by the way? If it were up to Dave, none of Schiit's DACs would come in a case. Dave told us after the stream that he prefers the way the DACs sound "bare", with no metal around them. What he does at home is to just stick some shielding and electrical tape over components that need shielding or electrical insulation (see the power switch in the screenshot above for an example), and that's it. Apparently, this results in a cleaner sound. Or so he says.
A real shame that the FCC, the CPSC, and Schiit's own legal eagles all have other priorities, like "public safety" and other such nonsense.

I wonder if it'll do DSD/SACD...?

 

[XERO1]

I wonder if it'll do DSD/SACD...?

Oh Schiit! I didn’t even think about that!

Things just got even more interesting!

Actually, their current DS DACs can all technically do DSD, but they don’t enable that ability, so don’t hold your breath for DSD via Singularity.