[RCBinTN]

  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-what-i-learned

 
Wow, I want that guy's job.  Could you just imagine...how stressful.
 
Seriously, it's a great commentary on our very subjective hobby - and how to realize even appreciate the subjectivity.  A must read.

 

[Anavel0]

Wow, I want that guy's job.  Could you just imagine...how stressful.

Seriously, it's a great commentary on our very subjective hobby - and how to realize even appreciate the subjectivity.  A must read.

That's Tyll Hertsens. He created some of the first dedicated headphone amps, and I want to say first balanced headphone amp?, when he owned Headroom. He's got tons of experience is this hobby.

 

[tonykaz]

B Stock? 
 
You gotta be kidding!
 
Who on earth would buy something like this only to return it, didn't they do their due-dilligence? Geez
 
Well, I'll tell ya right off, in no uncertain terms, You Ain't gonna get away with returning a Car you bought from us!!! Forgetaboutit!  We got no dam "Restocking" fee, No return policy, Buyers-remorse is on You, p-u-r-e and simple.   You might get the Bank to repo it if you stop making payments but you're still on the hook. Don't even think about it. 
 
Oh another thing, try returning the House you just bought.  
 
Maybe I lived in Europe too long, buy something in Europe and you own it.  
 
K-Mart started this nonsense back in the mid 1970s, it caused nothing but problems.
 
Although I hafta say:  I'd be glad to take a Valhalla B for $299 instead of $349, who wouldn't?
 
Where's this malaise coming from?, deceptive advertising?, reviewers inaccurate evaluations?, Audiophile Nervosa?, Neurosis?, Psychosis?
 
Or is this just the way Internet Business has to do "Safety Net" & "Umbrella" coverage for skittishness & uncertainty? 
 
Offering a liberal Returns Policy Inspires and Super-Charges Buyer Remorse. 
 
"The Returns Policy" is the weighty negative to Internet Selling
 
Or maybe Schiit only gets a tiny fraction of a percentage returned and it's not a serious problem.
 
I'll hope that's what it is and accept the bargain when it's presented to me.
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[DougD]

 
B Stock? 
 
You gotta be kidding!
 
Who on earth would buy something like this only to return it, didn't they do their due-dilligence? Geez
 
Well, I'll tell ya right off, in no uncertain terms, You Ain't gonna get away with returning a Car you bought from us!!! Forgetaboutit!  We got no dam "Restocking" fee, No return policy, Buyers-remorse is on You, p-u-r-e and simple.   You might get the Bank to repo it if you stop making payments but you're still on the hook. Don't even think about it. 
 
.....
 
Where's this malaise coming from?, deceptive advertising?, reviewers inaccurate evaluations?, Audiophile Nervosa?, Neurosis?, Psychosis?
 
Or is this just the way Internet Business has to do "Safety Net" & "Umbrella" coverage for skittishness & uncertainty? 
 
...
 
Tony in Michigan

 
Tony, 
 
Bear in mind that these days many audio equipment manufacturers, such as Schiit, have zero dealer networks. Other than shows and informal get-togethers of fans, there is NO place to go for a "test drive" for much audio gear. And there are certainly any number of "reviewers" out there who seemingly will ooze gold glitter over anything they are sent to review, so our actual ability to do reasonable due diligence on many products is really limited. 
 
For many potential consumers worldwide, audio gear is expensive relative to their disposable income. Obviously there is a tier of consumers who really aren't price-sensitive at all, but that's a relatively thin sliver. For the rest, if the manufacturers can say anything they want about their gear, and the consumer is at-risk, without effective recourse, if those claims are proven unjustified when the gear is in-hand... well, the very predictable reaction of most consumers is to not buy in the first place. 
 
On the other hand, some manufacturers are so confident that their products will meet consumers expectations that they offer very easy return policies, with the deliberate intent of encouraging consumers to try their brands at low risk. And if the product does not meet its' hype, the mfr ends up being the one that suffers the majority of the loss, not the consumer.
 
So there's a very legit business strategy behind this "try it at low risk" approach.
 
That said, there are too many people, including some conspicuous here on Head-Fi, who just totally abuse the system. They'll buy two or three competing products at one time, have an at-home shoot-out, and then return the 2nd or 3rd place finishers. And that was their explicit intent all along. To me, that is hugely different from a consumer who does a reasonable due diligence beforehand, orders a product he/she genuinely thinks is the optimal solution for the needs, and then post-purchase finds it's not everything it was expected to be. This practice is probably not illegal, but it sure as heck is unethical IMO. 
 
As an analogy, who believes you should be able to go to a nice restaurant, order three entrees, try them all, and send two back to the kitchen, saying "I don't like these, I'm not paying for them" ??? 
 
Many more Head-Fi-ers will purchase a lot of products essentially for trial, but they sell the ones they don't ultimately want on the second-hand market. That's the ethical way to do it, and I applaud all of the stand-up people out there who do it that way. 
 
(Sorry for the rant/venting. Got close to one of my hot- buttons there.) 

 

[tonykaz]

Mr. DougD,
 
Excellent Summary, I accept.
 
I'm reading Tyll's descriptions of the difficulty in finding any difference in headphone electronics today, with the visual subjectives and stuff like "loose" knobs being the deciding factors brings me to a conclusion that the Schiit stuff is bound to please.  Certainly Schiit is not over-promising performance.
 
I can understand a person returning a $5,000 Amp after realizing the $350 Amp is it's performance equal but probably not the other way around.  
 
I can't see how Schiit is "Over-selling" or pushing reluctant prospects. 
 
I suppose we are discussing what Stoddard was referring to as "Audiophile Nervosa" as a future subject for one of his chapters.  
 
Certainly, outfits like Schiit will end up benefiting from folks reading the "Big Sound 2015" story.
 
In the meantime, I may end up with an additional bonus on my next purchase of headphone gear.
 
And, by the way, your response, in no way reads as a Rant, rather an intelligent response to a possible Rant.  Nice writhing!
 
I suppose that I'm baffled that people could be so profoundly confused, enough to go to these extreme maneuverings.
 
Oh-well,
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[rmoody]

 
B Stock? 
 
You gotta be kidding!
 
Who on earth would buy something like this only to return it, didn't they do their due-dilligence? Geez

 
Keep in mind that some of these are products that were malfunctioning and returned for replacement. In these cases, the defective unit was diagnosed, repaired and then sold as B stock.

 

[bigro]

B stock Could also mean a slight blemish say on the finish or silk screening on a new one. Some people may not mind that seeing as you still get a full warranty.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Keep in mind that some of these are products that were malfunctioning and returned for replacement. In these cases, the defective unit was diagnosed, repaired and then sold as B stock.

Typically not malfunctioning, just returned.

 

[Ableza]

I've purchased many B-stock A/V items from several manufacturers (although not Schiit - yet) and I've never been disappointed.  There is nothing wrong with buying B-stock.  If it was *that* bad, most companies would not sell it to a customer.  Fears about buying defects are greatly exaggerated in this thread.

 

[MWSVette]

  B stock Could also mean a slight blemish say on the finish or silk screening on a new one. Some people may not mind that seeing as you still get a full warranty.

I​ bought my original Lyr as "B" stock.  When I bought my 2nd Lyr no "B" stock was available so I bought new. Then I compared the two units and I could not find the "blemish".   So people should buy in confidence know they getting the good Schiit with the full Schiit warranty at a nice discount.

 

[rmoody]

 
Typically not malfunctioning, just returned.

In that case...
 
You gotta be kidding!
 
Who on earth would buy something like this only to return it, didn't they do their due-dilligence? Geez

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Typically because our product was the least expensive in their comparo.
 
As an executive at another (very large) audio manufacturer once said, "All Asgard 2 needs is a bigger chassis, some lead weights, and 4x the price tag, and it would be perfect."

 

[rmoody]

  Typically because our product was the least expensive in their comparo.
 
As an executive at another (very large) audio manufacturer once said, "All Asgard 2 needs is a bigger chassis, some lead weights, and 4x the price tag, and it would be perfect."

Don't forget sold only through approved dealers!

 

[Netrum]

Jason your my hero!
All my friends are now using Schiit amp's and dac's.
And every Wednesday i check the thread for more stories.

 

[tonykaz]

Calibration Stickers
 
A while back, I bought a digital multi-meter. A "Name" Brand outfit.  The Meter came with a little Calibration Sticker Initialed & Dated by the Tech.  I can calibrate all my other 3 Multi-Meters with it. ( or anyone else's, for that matter ).  Price point was well under $500. 
 
Seems a sticker like that would be a one Penny solution to a One Thousand Dollar problem.
 
I wouldn't have made that purchase without that verification sticker. 
 
I'd gladly pay extra for a Schiit Quality Sticker signed & dated.  You kidding me, that sticker would be "Gold". 
 
Tony in Michigan