[johnjen]

Good point, as some single and triple triode amps will do the same signal phase reversal, not to mention dacs and even some pre-amps (although it's rare).
Still, if the very bottom of the FR of the entire system is 'hindered', it may not even be noticeable.

But when this portion of the FR IS enabled, the results can be stunningly impressive.

JJ

 

[valiant66]

I'm not sure the phase switch button does anything for me. I'm listening to Fancy by Reba now. Sounds like the phase button adds and unwelcome fullness or harshness to Reba's voice. But it's really really subtle.

The phase button is not a set-it-and-forget-it thing. You say you hear a difference with Reba, even if it is subtle. So the phase button literally does do something for you. Set the phase button to the setting that sounds best to you for that song. Try it again on the next song. It varies on a song-by-song basis, even on the same album.
.

 

[Charente]

@johnjen Great explanation ... I notice Audirvana has a setting where one can reverse the polarity ... I have it set to auto ... 'Invert for tracks with invertpolarity comment'

 

[johnjen]

And to put a period at the end of these sentences…

There truly are only a few albums in my collection where the sub bass really stands out as a result of getting the phase correct.
And I have been collecting albums specifically with being able to hear when the phase IS correct, for decades now.

In fact I have a "phase" column in my JRiver player window just to note which tracks are in or out of phase.
And really only ≈ 10% of the albums I have, is where the bass is pronounced enough to be readily obvious when it's 'right'.

But when it is, and on one of those ≈10% tracks, it adds a whole nuther level to the visceral experience, which I find compelling enough to fuss with any of this in the first place.

And the setup of, and the system components I have running, all are chosen to fully enable 'proper' bass response down to at least 15Hz and functionally as it sits, it seems to reach close to 12Hz.
And of course these are subjective assessments since the only musical information that reaches this far down are impulse sources (drums, guns, cannons, lightening strikes, even the resonant drone of the air conditioning systems). And since they aren't 'steady state' taking a reliable frequency measurement is 'difficult'.

Even so when they whack one of those 6' drums it can 'light up' the resonance of the whole room.
But that's just where the changes to the sound starts, then as it dissipates and as the resonances 'play off' each other, this adds a rich source of additional acoustic nuances and subtleties, not to mention the kicks/thumps/whacks to the head which can also be felt in the chest.

I have a theory but with NO experimental data, at all.
So it's worth EXACTLY what you'd pay for it.

Even so, being able to have any system reach down this far, with 'authority', has additional SQ consequences as well, ones that are somewhat unexpected, unless you're familiar with what lurks down in the sub basement (there be dragons!).

JJ

 

[Derrick Swart]

The New Year's Dip in The Hague. It'll freeze your nuts.

the atlantic is for the brave

 

[Paladin79]

And to put a period at the end of these sentences…

There truly are only a few albums in my collection where the sub bass really stands out as a result of getting the phase correct.
And I have been collecting albums specifically with being able to hear when the phase IS correct, for decades now.

In fact I have a "phase" column in my JRiver player window just to note which tracks are in or out of phase.
And really only ≈ 10% of the albums I have, is where the bass is pronounced enough to be readily obvious when it's 'right'.

But when it is, and on one of those ≈10% tracks, it adds a whole nuther level to the visceral experience, which I find compelling enough to fuss with any of this in the first place.

And the setup of, and the system components I have running, all are chosen to fully enable 'proper' bass response down to at least 15Hz and functionally as it sits, it seems to reach close to 12Hz.
And of course these are subjective assessments since the only musical information that reaches this far down are impulse sources (drums, guns, cannons, lightening strikes, even the resonant drone of the air conditioning systems). And since they aren't 'steady state' taking a reliable frequency measurement is 'difficult'.

Even so when they whack one of those 6' drums it can 'light up' the resonance of the whole room.
But that's just where the changes to the sound starts, then as it dissipates and as the resonances 'play off' each other, this adds a rich source of additional acoustic nuances and subtleties, not to mention the kicks/thumps/whacks to the head which can also be felt in the chest.

I have a theory but with NO experimental data, at all.
So it's worth EXACTLY what you'd pay for it.

Even so, being able to have any system reach down this far, with 'authority', has additional SQ consequences as well, ones that are somewhat unexpected, unless you're familiar with what lurks down in the sub basement (there be dragons!).

JJ

Interesting comment and I was glad to see you mentioned impulse sources and not being in a steady state. Infrasound is interesting...

https://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/2018/05/10/ghosts-infrasound/

Large animals use it for communication and I have read theories that large cats use it to freeze their prey. Locally there is an exotic feline rescue center that houses over 200 lions, tigers, bobcats etc. A walk through the grounds, especially around feeding time and you start to understand how the body feels low frequencies that our ears do not pick up.

https://www.exoticfelinerescuecenter.org/home.html

 

[RCBinTN]

I have a "phase" column in my JRiver player window just to note which tracks are in or out of phase.

Can you describe how to do this, John? You got me interested now

 

[Ripper2860]

And to put a period at the end of these sentences…

There truly are only a few albums in my collection where the sub bass really stands out as a result of getting the phase correct.
And I have been collecting albums specifically with being able to hear when the phase IS correct, for decades now.

In fact I have a "phase" column in my JRiver player window just to note which tracks are in or out of phase.
And really only ≈ 10% of the albums I have, is where the bass is pronounced enough to be readily obvious when it's 'right'.

But when it is, and on one of those ≈10% tracks, it adds a whole nuther level to the visceral experience, which I find compelling enough to fuss with any of this in the first place.

And the setup of, and the system components I have running, all are chosen to fully enable 'proper' bass response down to at least 15Hz and functionally as it sits, it seems to reach close to 12Hz.
And of course these are subjective assessments since the only musical information that reaches this far down are impulse sources (drums, guns, cannons, lightening strikes, even the resonant drone of the air conditioning systems). And since they aren't 'steady state' taking a reliable frequency measurement is 'difficult'.

Even so when they whack one of those 6' drums it can 'light up' the resonance of the whole room.
But that's just where the changes to the sound starts, then as it dissipates and as the resonances 'play off' each other, this adds a rich source of additional acoustic nuances and subtleties, not to mention the kicks/thumps/whacks to the head which can also be felt in the chest.

I have a theory but with NO experimental data, at all.
So it's worth EXACTLY what you'd pay for it.

Even so, being able to have any system reach down this far, with 'authority', has additional SQ consequences as well, ones that are somewhat unexpected, unless you're familiar with what lurks down in the sub basement (there be dragons!).

JJ

Boy -- I wish I had your gear, your ears, or your imagination!!

 

[dieslemat]

Boy -- I wish I had your gear, your ears, or your imagination!!

@johnjen - you have a potential fanboy here. Just kidding

 

[Ripper2860]

@johnjen - you have a potential fanboy here. Just kidding

As was I...

 

[Mike-WI]

(bold added)

And to put a period at the end of these sentences…

There truly are only a few albums in my collection where the sub bass really stands out as a result of getting the phase correct.
And I have been collecting albums specifically with being able to hear when the phase IS correct, for decades now.

In fact I have a "phase" column in my JRiver player window just to note which tracks are in or out of phase.
And really only ≈ 10% of the albums I have, is where the bass is pronounced enough to be readily obvious when it's 'right'.

But when it is, and on one of those ≈10% tracks, it adds a whole nuther level to the visceral experience, which I find compelling enough to fuss with any of this in the first place.

And the setup of, and the system components I have running, all are chosen to fully enable 'proper' bass response down to at least 15Hz and functionally as it sits, it seems to reach close to 12Hz.
And of course these are subjective assessments since the only musical information that reaches this far down are impulse sources (drums, guns, cannons, lightening strikes, even the resonant drone of the air conditioning systems). And since they aren't 'steady state' taking a reliable frequency measurement is 'difficult'.

Even so when they whack one of those 6' drums it can 'light up' the resonance of the whole room.
But that's just where the changes to the sound starts, then as it dissipates and as the resonances 'play off' each other, this adds a rich source of additional acoustic nuances and subtleties, not to mention the kicks/thumps/whacks to the head which can also be felt in the chest.

I have a theory but with NO experimental data, at all.
So it's worth EXACTLY what you'd pay for it.

Even so, being able to have any system reach down this far, with 'authority', has additional SQ consequences as well, ones that are somewhat unexpected, unless you're familiar with what lurks down in the sub basement (there be dragons!).

JJ

Can you describe how to do this, John? You got me interested now

I looked in the columns settings for JRiver v26.0.14 (64-bit) and I don't see a "Phase".
Can you elaborate?

 

[wout31]

I looked in the columns settings for JRiver v26.0.14 (64-bit) and I don't see a "Phase".
Can you elaborate?

At the bottom of this page there is information on how to reverse polarity in JRiver https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer
I guess you have to tweak the interface GUI to have special column for it (and fill it manually)

As to 15 Hz and even 12 Hz I have posted this graph before. Music? Organ only (if any). Can it produce 80+ dB at that frequency? Probably not. YMMV



https://www.acousticfields.com/wavelengths-in-our-rooms/

 

[Mike-WI]

At the bottom of this page there is information on how to reverse polarity in JRiver https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer
I guess you have to tweak the interface GUI to have special column for it

As to 15 Hz and even 12 Hz I have posted this graph before. Music? Organ only (if any). Can it produce 80+ dB at that frequency? Probably not. YMMV

Thanks.
I will look at this in JRiver.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer

EDIT:
For those following along (in v26):
Player -> DSP Studio... -> Parametric Equalizer -> Add -> "Reverse polarity (Left/Right)" -> can turn on/off in left column

I don't see a way that JRiver tells you the polarity. It looks like this is a polarity switcher function.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

I'm farting around with my latest toy -- a Beyerdynamic DT-880 (Black) headphone (600 ohm). PLUS: they much prettier than my Sony HDR7510 and they feel more sturdy than my Massdrop HD6xx. The metal has a rubberised coating -- they're pleasant to the touch. According to my spouse, they bleed sound somewhat less than my HD650-clones. They're just as open-feeling as my Senheissers. Metal brackets. They come with a pleasant-feeling cable and a protective clam-shell case. No head-clamp on my Charlie-Brown melon. The outer cardboard case is attractive without unnecessary foam or plastic inserts. MINUS: The cable's not out-of-the-box swappable (that'll mean some soldering if they short out). I got a service manual with my Sony 'phones... missing with my DT-880. INTERESTING: both my Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 drive them to my satisfaction. I'm curious to see how the DT-880 sound with my Magni-3 and Vali-2 (I wonder if my Fulla-2 will be able drive them?). Replacement parts are indeed sold via Beyer's global website. I'm being reminded that these three headphones compliment different music files.

 

[johnjen]

Can you describe how to do this, John? You got me interested now

I re-purposed the 'notes' column by re-naming it and then added it to the player window.
And then over time added either an 'N' or an "R' in that column for each track/album (it did take a while), but I only needed to do this to those albums I actually listen(ed) to.

JJ