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Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

Discussion in 'Jason Stoddard' started by jason stoddard, Jan 23, 2014.
  1. MonoOno
    Jason, will there be a Modi 3 in black and red to match the Heresy?
  2. PioBeer
    Jason posted earlier that there will not be. Just black and grey.
  3. ludvigrollover
    what, I need to buy a real reading lamp now?
  4. MonoOno
    Yeah, just noticed. Welp, that sucks.
  5. A Jedi
    @Jason Stoddard I'm (apparently the only one) confused about the Magni Thunderdome. 99.9% of people have no clue what discrete vs op-amp is. And of those that do, how many have had enough experience with each to know which they prefer (I certainly have not)? In this thunderdome you're asking people to decide between 2 things they don't understand. I bet the "winner" will come down to either color choice, the preference of your wording of one version vs the other or, pure luck. If you want real results you should only take into account the people who buy both and return one. The preamp thunderdome at least has differences more people can understand (tubes/SS, balanced/unbalanced).
  6. tincanear

    actually, you're very fortunate to have the loaners from Schiit-- you get to have their latest and greatest on your desktop without impacting your wallet, for now (see below).

    if you're still considering Asgard 3 or Lyr 3, then you have Gear Acquisition Syndrome (like most of us on this thread)… resistance is futile... just save up for a Mjolnir-class HP amp, and start "hording" ECC40 tubes before @bcowen and @Ripper2860 gobble up the world's existing supply. :)

    aside @bcowen @Ripper2860 no need to worry about me competing for the remaining supply-- i'm still using a solid-stage (gasp) preamp that predates Schiit's existence by about 10 years.... until I succumb and get a Freya S to replace it (kinda hoping it loses the thunderdome battle to you "valve heads" (absolutely no disrespect intended) so I can buy as a last-call item for less $$$) :wink: :wink:
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
    Rensek, bcowen and ScubaMan2017 like this.
  7. Timster
    @Jason Stoddard

    I prefer the use of "and" as much as possible instead of "but" ... more positive

    "We developed the Magni Heresy largely to see what could be accomplished with a simple topology and modern op-amps, AND we’re very pleased with the way it came out."

    Rensek, bcowen and tincanear like this.
  8. ev666il
    @Jason Stoddard So I was thinking: When Modi 3 was introduced, you explained how consolidating your product line made sense as it made it easier on the customers (by removing choice clog) and on Alex (he’d have less product variations to keep track of.)

    While I do understand what you’re doing with the Thunderdome, and I am especially appreciative of your customer-oriented business model (it’s one of the many things I love Schiit for), doesn’t having two versions of Magni kind of run counter that consolidation approach?

    Indeed, you said you’d eventually only produce the one version customers preferred—but you also said you’d do both, were customers to be split evenly between the two.
    NoahFence likes this.
  9. tincanear
    'unbalanced' sounds somewhat derogatory, the preferred term is 'single ended' aka SE
  10. Timster
    I've never thought of it referring to me in a derogatory sense :thinking:
    porchwizard likes this.
  11. tincanear
    Magni 3 Heresy is worth a try if you like the black top/ red side panels color scheme, but keep in mind you'll need to update your Modi 3 for best aesthetic. Asgard 2 and other amps in the mid-size chassis have the well-respected blue alps rk27 pot, which gives very good volume tracking at lower pot settings than the smaller rk09 pots used for the smaller form factor chassis. asgard 2 will put out more than adequate power to the HD58X, enough to smoke the voice coils and/or cause permanent hearing damage running continuous sine waves or white noise when cranked within the amp's rated output.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
    Rensek and Gazny like this.
  12. tin-ear
    For those who missed this:

    Duty Calls  XKCD 386.jpg
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  13. tincanear

    @Jason Stoddard the fact that you list these items at all means that you definitely apply more engineering in your products than some "audio designers" and tweakists do.

    1. measurement (with steady-state, sinusoidal waveforms) for op-amp measures better than discrete from combination of higher open loop gain plus feedback. op-amps also have tighter beta matching between differential pairs, tighter thermal ambient, and ability to make more complex structures (like the multi-emitter transistors, when the data sheets /data books included an "equivalent circuit schematic")
    2. in low gain mode, there is higher feedback
    3. driver stage (VAS???) adds more distortion to the open loop, but would reduce voltage swing requirements of prior stage
    4. driver stage transistors introduce another pole (low pass filter characteristic) in the loop
    5. cascoding (fixed VCE or VDS, or Vplate-cathode), apply local feedback at each gain stage (emitter or source degeneration), grade and sort transistors for higher linearity per expected load-line, feed-forward
    6. miller compensation? s and jw are phasor domain. (was a long time ago I studied this)
    7. haven't looked recently, but I strongly suspect those exact TI parts that you selected (with the caveat that the output buffers are best at an equivalent load of about 250 ohms, which is why you employ 4x or is it 8x of those in parallel)
    8. power supply bypassing; poor pcb layout, esp grounding and consideration of loop currents, input network impedances interacting with input parasitics
    9. cable routing and ground connections are critical, esp for a power amp under loaded conditions. personally hate cheesy 3.5mm TRS connectors (wiggle and they become intermittent)
    10. maybe a few percent for bass/midrange, 0.1%~0.5% for higher ranges
    11. maybe 0.1% for mid bass & upwards, and much worse when approaching 20hz (if it goes that low)
    12. transducer distortion is an order of magnitude or two worse than amp distortion
    13. don't know, but expect it to be much worse than the preamp and power amp. ADC would be an exception if its the one @Baldr designed.

    completely un-related aside: I thought that Kemet also made thin-film resistors in addition to SMT MLCC's (or was that very very long ago). Caddock, or are they mostly into custom arrays and power resistors?
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  14. tincanear
    @Jason Stoddard I was wondering why the soldermask color on the Bifrost2 USB module and DAC module looked different. thought maybe that was a proto pre-production unit with PCB's from board houses specializing in small runs with rapid turn around vs first articles from your production vendors.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  15. Tim van der Leeuw
    (and there was much wailing and crying)

    What's next - Ragnarok 3 will be a class D amplifier?


    thebmc, bcowen and US Blues like this.

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