[golfbravobravo]

So not only does @Jason Stoddard tell me I'm one of a crowd, I think he is teasing us when he says 'No Specials".

If that is true, how does the guy in the video review cited this morning get this 'left-handed Freya'?????????

 

[Xcalibur255]

With all the investment that's starting to go into new tube production I'd like to see the industry make a big leap and introduce a new socket that modernizes things a bit and makes the keying idiot proof for consumers. I guess that's what loctal was supposed to do all those years ago, but if the world is going to manufacture this stuff again in volume (which some people are) then why not try to improve it?

Same thing with popular tubes like like the 6SN7. These tubes were a compromise between performance, cost, size and the technology limits of the day. If we were willing to break ties with the past a new series of tubes could undoubtedly have better performance for the same manufacturing cost. It wouldn't happen overnight but if the new designs really were better and some production scale were able to bring costs down to something reasonable people would start designing product to use it and the whole thing would snowball with time.

The only people I know of who have tried are Emission Labs with their 20 and 30 series "new" DHTs. These have far too limited an audience though.

 

[belgiangenius]

Your tube choice is very similar to mine and I commend your choices!
I certainly am "older" but for the majority of my audio career I had solid state, be it Pioneer, Dynaco, whatever. Tubes are more trouble but....you can change tubes and alter the sound a bit, till you tweak it to perfection. Now I do a lot of this anyway with different capacitors, resistors, and even wire with my DIY projects and that can be costly as well but when you are done, you have something tailored to your exact likes. Tubes are an easy way to bring about a slight change if you like their sound. Now as far as Schiit products I have owned the Valhalla 2, Lyr 2, Freya, Vali 2 and at least half a dozen Coaster amps that I have completed. I own solid state amps, dacs, phono stages, etc. but I do have preferences just like anyone on here. Tubes have many drawbacks, and can be expensive, but with a change of a tube, a Melz 1578 in a Vali 2 or a Lyr 2 and you just changed the sound for the better IMHO. Two of them in the old Freya was decent, in the Freya +, wow, just wow!

We are in a similar boat. When I started with DACS 10 years ago, I was building my own from engineering evaluation boards. Then I rebuilt and reworked some vintage Adcom GDA600/700 units. From there, as my budget became less restrictive, I messed around with some early Lampizator units - that's where I learned that tubes can have a heavenly (or awful) effect on sound. Once I tried a Yggdrasil, I bought one and that ended my experimentation with source equipment.

Then Freya appeared, so I grabbed one, eager to have tubes somewhere in my system. My Freya is connected to my Yamaha B2/NS-1000M combo, which have been completely rebuilt and improved by me.

So, yeah, we're probably not Schiit's typical customers. But when you make schiit as good as they do, we show up to try and buy your gear. And, yeah, I can sometimes be a pain in the ass.

 

[judson_w]

With all the investment that's starting to go into new tube production I'd like to see the industry make a big leap and introduce a new socket that modernizes things a bit and makes the keying idiot proof for consumers. I guess that's what loctal was supposed to do all those years ago, but if the world is going to manufacture this stuff again in volume (which some people are) then why not try to improve it?

Same thing with popular tubes like like the 6SN7. These tubes were a compromise between performance, cost, size and the technology limits of the day. If we were willing to break ties with the past a new series of tubes could undoubtedly have better performance for the same manufacturing cost. It wouldn't happen overnight but if the new designs really were better and some production scale were able to bring costs down to something reasonable people would start designing product to use it and the whole thing would snowball with time.

The only people I know of who have tried are Emission Labs with their 20 and 30 series "new" DHTs. These have far too limited an audience though.

Issues with making improvements that change structure are making sure that they are backwards compatible and getting manufacturers to adopt the new method. Of course, if it is backwards compatible, they will not need to adapt, and thus you spent time developing something with limited effect. If you make it not backwards compatible, you annoy a lot of customers unless they get adapters (which would still annoy them), and there probably would still be resistance from manufactures to adopt your new methods.

 

[Paladin79]

We are in a similar boat. When I started with DACS 10 years ago, I was building my own from engineering evaluation boards. Then I rebuilt and reworked some vintage Adcom GDA600/700 units. From there, as my budget became less restrictive, I messed around with some early Lampizator units - that's where I learned that tubes can have a heavenly (or awful) effect on sound. Once I tried a Yggdrasil, I bought one and that ended my experimentation with source equipment.

Then Freya appeared, so I grabbed one, eager to have tubes somewhere in my system. My Freya is connected to my Yamaha B2/NS-1000M combo, which have been completely rebuilt and improved by me.

So, yeah, we're probably not Schiit's typical customers. But when you make schiit as good as they do, we show up to try and buy your gear. And, yeah, I can sometimes be a pain in the ass.

You should visit the Vali tube rolling thread if you have not. There is a gentleman there from Belgium who gets some very good deals on 6sn7 equivalents from Europe. Old Deaf Donkey out of Brussels.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-181#post-14989230

 

[Robert Padgett]

LOL. That's a fair comment.

I do think that Freya customers would be different, on average. I'd expect those interested in tubes to be older and more experienced with audio gear. Someone above called that a "snobbish attitude". I'm not sure where that pent-up hostility comes from...but he's right in the sense that the first thing I did with Freya + was a drop in $500 worth the tubes.

Raytheon VT-231 flat plates in the driver stage and genuine Melz 1578 in the buffer stage. Pure bliss.

Sorry that you now think anyone who does not agree with your assessment of an Average Schiit customer has pent up hostility.

I have no hostility and I am an "older and more experienced" audio reviewer and critic. Prior to that, a Photojournalist for the British News Agency, Reuters.

Let me make a comparison in something you may be able to understand. The German firm, Volkswagen AG produces a car that is targeted for people who want a modern version of the Iconic "Bug", first designed under Hitler by Ferdinand Porsche as the "people's car". That corporation produces the following Premium Marques:

• Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. ...
• Bentley. ...
• Bugatti Automobiles S.A.S. ...
• Porsche AG. ...
  
• and licensed their trademarks for rights to the Spirit of Ecstasy and Rolls-Royce grille shape trademarks from Volkswagen AG to BMW AG.

So what is the average VW customer?
The Bugatti Veyron at $2 million each or the VW Golf or Beetle buyer?

The Freya is a $900 pre-amp with a tube hybrid buffer. A brand new 6SN7 from Slovakia's JJ-Electronic costs $17.95, and you simply cannot tolerate a tube that costs less than extremely expensive, vintage vacuum tubes.

"Snobbish attitude" is the expectation that a company whose "average customer" buys quality audio gear in the $99 - $350 price range should install a switch on their least expensive Tube Pre-amp ($299) so as to not have to turn the power off when you are choosing to not listen.

The Co-founder of that company explained that implementation of the switch on the Freya, the $900 version, was problematic and would be difficult to implement in the smaller form factor $300 Saga.


Snobbish? Actually, I think you describing yourself as an "idiot" was self-evident and I said so. Prima facie means 'on first sight.'

I only confirmed your self-diagnosis, and as The Affordable Audiophile, I can at least recognize that if you want the functionality of the $900 unit, then pony up $1200 and buy four vintage, rare and acceptable to you valves and enjoy.

Try writing the CEO of Volkswagen, Herr Herbert Diess, and admonish him because the Buggati V-12 engine isn't an option on the Beetle...

www.nytimes.com/1998/07/29/news/bmw-wrests-rollsroyce-name-away-from-vw.html

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Try writing the CEO of Volkswagen, Herr Herbert Diess, and admonish him because the Buggati V-12 engine isn't an option on the Beetle...

Huh? It isn't?

 

[Robert Padgett]

The cheap ones were extremely hard to match, and many were noisy. We were spending too much time matching them. Hence, gone. Life's too short. (Though we did keep a whole box around for burn-in.)



Oh heck no, nobody is an idiot. Hell, I've used the wrong tubes in Freya and wondered What. I've inserted tubes wrong in a Freya and a Saga and a Lyr. I've broken off tube keys. Heck, I've totally missed the fact that the 6N8S tubes I was using in a prototype were actually 6N9S, and spent a day trying to figure out why the results were wonky. I also can't count the time I've wasted when I just tried some random tube in a new product, then discovered one side was bad/noisy/whatever.

Bottom line: if you want certainty, go solid state.

@Jason Stoddard My Vali 2 arrived in December, so all of my tube experience has been in an intensive, steep learning curve over the past six months. And yes, I never gave your choices of stock tubes a fair shake before wanting to roll in other glass. Then something happened and I decided to put the stock 6BZ7 back in the Vali 2 and used the 6N6P and stock 6N1P in my new Valhalla.

I was determined to use a pair of 1951 ribbed plate Fotons on the Valhalla--despite the need for stacked socket-savers and an adapter. Folks told me they needed 100 hours to break-in so after over 150 hours I said "fuggedaboutit" and put in your choice of 6N1Ps and now I appreciated the choice you made in "voicing" VH2.

I determined that if you intended using 6SN7 on the input stage, you would have designed it that way. My collection of 6SN7s sound great on the Vali 2-- all $20 worth (for six tubes).

Have you considered sourcing your new tubes from JJ-Electronic from Slovakia?
They make both a 6922-type and their ECC99 is working in place of the 6N6P on my Valhalla currently (no pun intended). I am enjoying their ECC82 (12au7) with adapters, and rolling in a 6DJ8 set for a different flavor, but I still like the "house sound" of the Russian Rockets, 6N1P.

 

[Gazny]

If that is true, how does the guy in the video review cited this morning get this 'left-handed Freya'?????????

Judging by the picture, and looking at the bottom of the monitor it appears that the picture is just flipped.
Here is what it should look like.

 

[White Noise]

Buggati V-12 engine

Don't undersell Bugatti - they use a W-16 in their cars I don't know how that gets power through a single transmission to all 4 wheels, but I assume that's where some of the price comes from XD

 

[Robert Padgett]

Don't undersell Bugatti - they use a W-16 in their cars I don't know how that gets power through a single transmission to all 4 wheels, but I assume that's where some of the price comes from XD

I'll stand corrected, certainly no room for four more cylinders in the Beetle... and what Tubes does the Veyron use?

 

[jimmers]

"wowzers"

One of my favorite words in the English language

Perhaps it would not be your favourite in Australia
(although we spell it with an S not a Z, of course, English language)

 

[jimmers]

... and what Tubes does the Veyron use?

I think they are tubeless (tyres),
Are you having a bad day?

Judging by the picture, and looking at the bottom of the monitor it appears that the picture is just flipped.
Here is what it should look like.

DUH!

 

[wabe]

Maybe it's a Southern Hemisphere version of the Freya to minimze the coriolis effect? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[golfbravobravo]

Judging by the picture, and looking at the bottom of the monitor it appears that the picture is just flipped.
Here is what it should look like.

I'm sitting looking at mine, which is the right-handed variant. It was intended as humor. Though the video does have the the whole thing flipped.