[Delirious Lab]

This is the one. I actually like to re-read this chapter every once in a while.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/sch...s-most-improbable-start-up/2460#post_10850301

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Believe it or not, "customers using bad tubes/inserting tubes wrong/using wrong tubes" is a top 3 tech support issue, and probably the leading cause of products coming back for service, at least since most of the USB/Windows drivers issues have been cleared up, and since we've moved to octal tubes (inserting a noval tube wrong is not easy, but hey, we've seen octal LISST inserted wrong--which is a ceramic key in a ceramic socket, wowzers). So yes, we're hypersensitive to it.

We're also hypersensitive to getting in the middle. Imagine this tech support scenario:

Customer: "Hey, my new Freya+ doesn't work/is noisy/is dead/is imbalanced in tube mode."
Us: "Cool, is that with the tubes we provided?"
Customer: "Nah, that's with some superunobtainum hand-rubbed Russian monk tubes that cost me $8000--"
Us: "Cool, can you try it with our tubes?"
Customer: "Sure. Hey, it works fine!"
Us: "Hope you can track down that monk."

Now, imagine it if we didn't provide tubes. Yeah, that's not pretty. Customer gets pissed we insinuate his hand-rubbed tubes are sucky. Tries 10000 cheap tubes he got on ebay. Nothing works. We bring the product back, it works fine. Lots of time wasted. Nobody happy.

So yes, EVERYTHING ships with tested, matched tubes. Sorry if that offends you.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

OK with the tubes, I understand that. But I have my own power cord...



JC

 

[golfbravobravo]

Believe it or not, "customers using bad tubes/inserting tubes wrong/using wrong tubes" is a top 3 tech support issue, and probably the leading cause of products coming back for service, at least since most of the USB/Windows drivers issues have been cleared up, and since we've moved to octal tubes (inserting a noval tube wrong is not easy, but hey, we've seen octal LISST inserted wrong--which is a ceramic key in a ceramic socket, wowzers). So yes, we're hypersensitive to it.

Stop shattering my illusions: my mum always told me I was unique

 

[Paladin79]

LOL. That's a fair comment.

I do think that Freya customers would be different, on average. I'd expect those interested in tubes to be older and more experienced with audio gear. Someone above called that a "snobbish attitude". I'm not sure where that pent-up hostility comes from...but he's right in the sense that the first thing I did with Freya + was drop in $500 worth the tubes.

Ratheon VT-231 flat plates in the driver stage and genuine Melz 1578 in the buffer stage. Pure bliss.

Your tube choice is very similar to mine and I commend your choices!
I certainly am "older" but for the majority of my audio career I had solid state, be it Pioneer, Dynaco, whatever. Tubes are more trouble but....you can change tubes and alter the sound a bit, till you tweak it to perfection. Now I do a lot of this anyway with different capacitors, resistors, and even wire with my DIY projects and that can be costly as well but when you are done, you have something tailored to your exact likes. Tubes are an easy way to bring about a slight change if you like their sound. Now as far as Schiit products I have owned the Valhalla 2, Lyr 2, Freya, Vali 2 and at least half a dozen Coaster amps that I have completed. I own solid state amps, dacs, phono stages, etc. but I do have preferences just like anyone on here. Tubes have many drawbacks, and can be expensive, but with a change of a tube, a Melz 1578 in a Vali 2 or a Lyr 2 and you just changed the sound for the better IMHO. Two of them in the old Freya was decent, in the Freya +, wow, just wow!

 

[Paladin79]

Stop shattering my illusions: my mum always told me I was unique

You ARE unique. Just like everybody else.

 

[Gazny]

This is the one. I actually like to re-read this chapter every once in a while.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/sch...s-most-improbable-start-up/2460#post_10850301

Never read that chapter before your link. The section about sales seems very relevant as of recently.

 

[Smithington]

Believe it or not, "customers using bad tubes/inserting tubes wrong/using wrong tubes" is a top 3 tech support issue, and probably the leading cause of products coming back for service, at least since most of the USB/Windows drivers issues have been cleared up, and since we've moved to octal tubes (inserting a noval tube wrong is not easy, but hey, we've seen octal LISST inserted wrong--which is a ceramic key in a ceramic socket, wowzers). So yes, we're hypersensitive to it.

We're also hypersensitive to getting in the middle. Imagine this tech support scenario:

Customer: "Hey, my new Freya+ doesn't work/is noisy/is dead/is imbalanced in tube mode."
Us: "Cool, is that with the tubes we provided?"
Customer: "Nah, that's with some superunobtainum hand-rubbed Russian monk tubes that cost me $8000--"
Us: "Cool, can you try it with our tubes?"
Customer: "Sure. Hey, it works fine!"
Us: "Hope you can track down that monk."

Now, imagine it if we didn't provide tubes. Yeah, that's not pretty. Customer gets pissed we insinuate his hand-rubbed tubes are sucky. Tries 10000 cheap tubes he got on ebay. Nothing works. We bring the product back, it works fine. Lots of time wasted. Nobody happy.

So yes, EVERYTHING ships with tested, matched tubes. Sorry if that offends you.

Great clarification. And again without actually insinuating or stating that anyone is an idiot.

 

[RCBinTN]

... wowzers ...

One of my favorite words in the English language

 

[Rensek]

Believe it or not, "customers using bad tubes/inserting tubes wrong/using wrong tubes" is a top 3 tech support issue, and probably the leading cause of products coming back for service, at least since most of the USB/Windows drivers issues have been cleared up, and since we've moved to octal tubes (inserting a noval tube wrong is not easy, but hey, we've seen octal LISST inserted wrong--which is a ceramic key in a ceramic socket, wowzers). So yes, we're hypersensitive to it.

We're also hypersensitive to getting in the middle. Imagine this tech support scenario:

Customer: "Hey, my new Freya+ doesn't work/is noisy/is dead/is imbalanced in tube mode."
Us: "Cool, is that with the tubes we provided?"
Customer: "Nah, that's with some superunobtainum hand-rubbed Russian monk tubes that cost me $8000--"
Us: "Cool, can you try it with our tubes?"
Customer: "Sure. Hey, it works fine!"
Us: "Hope you can track down that monk."

Now, imagine it if we didn't provide tubes. Yeah, that's not pretty. Customer gets pissed we insinuate his hand-rubbed tubes are sucky. Tries 10000 cheap tubes he got on ebay. Nothing works. We bring the product back, it works fine. Lots of time wasted. Nobody happy.

So yes, EVERYTHING ships with tested, matched tubes. Sorry if that offends you.

Question related to this topic, I see Freya plus only comes with the better tung sols now. They command quite the price premium compared to the NOS ones you offered before.

Why did you stop offering the cheap ones standard? Seems like that could alleviate some of the "I don't want your fancy tubes, I want my own fancy tubes" situations being discussed here.

Did those older tubes come with a different set of problems?

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Believe it or not, "customers using bad tubes/inserting tubes wrong/using wrong tubes" is a top 3 tech support issue, and probably the leading cause of products coming back for service, at least since most of the USB/Windows drivers issues have been cleared up, and since we've moved to octal tubes (inserting a noval tube wrong is not easy, but hey, we've seen octal LISST inserted wrong--which is a ceramic key in a ceramic socket, wowzers). So yes, we're hypersensitive to it.

We're also hypersensitive to getting in the middle. Imagine this tech support scenario:

Customer: "Hey, my new Freya+ doesn't work/is noisy/is dead/is imbalanced in tube mode."
Us: "Cool, is that with the tubes we provided?"
Customer: "Nah, that's with some superunobtainum hand-rubbed Russian monk tubes that cost me $8000--"
Us: "Cool, can you try it with our tubes?"
Customer: "Sure. Hey, it works fine!"
Us: "Hope you can track down that monk."

Now, imagine it if we didn't provide tubes. Yeah, that's not pretty. Customer gets pissed we insinuate his hand-rubbed tubes are sucky. Tries 10000 cheap tubes he got on ebay. Nothing works. We bring the product back, it works fine. Lots of time wasted. Nobody happy.

So yes, EVERYTHING ships with tested, matched tubes. Sorry if that offends you.

So can I opt for the "standard" tubes but hand-rubbed and acclimated under your pillow for two nights?

 

[Xcalibur255]

I prefer using adapters with 6SN7’s, among my favorites there are Melz equivalent 1578’s, and black glass Ken -Rad JAN-CKR-6SN7GT’s.

The black glass Ken Rad is pretty much the poster child for "tube sound" but sadly it's so darn hard to find ones that are not noisy that I've given up on them. I don't know what it is about Ken Rads but they all start crackling and rustling sooner or later.

 

[Paladin79]

The black glass Ken Rad is pretty much the poster child for "tube sound" but sadly it's so darn hard to find ones that are not noisy that I've given up on them. I don't know what it is about Ken Rads but they all start crackling and rustling sooner or later.

I have had good luck with those myself but I only have a couple.

I certainly do not mind getting the Tung Sols with the Freya, as I said earlier even if you do a tube swap, it is good to have a known good set of tubes in the event you run into issues. The Freya + comes with a nice clear warning about the tubes being keyed so hopefully that will alleviate some of the issues with tubes being improperly installed.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Question related to this topic, I see Freya plus only comes with the better tung sols now. They command quite the price premium compared to the NOS ones you offered before.

Why did you stop offering the cheap ones standard? Seems like that could alleviate some of the "I don't want your fancy tubes, I want my own fancy tubes" situations being discussed here.

Did those older tubes come with a different set of problems?

The cheap ones were extremely hard to match, and many were noisy. We were spending too much time matching them. Hence, gone. Life's too short. (Though we did keep a whole box around for burn-in.)

Great clarification. And again without actually insinuating or stating that anyone is an idiot.

Oh heck no, nobody is an idiot. Hell, I've used the wrong tubes in Freya and wondered What. I've inserted tubes wrong in a Freya and a Saga and a Lyr. I've broken off tube keys. Heck, I've totally missed the fact that the 6N8S tubes I was using in a prototype were actually 6N9S, and spent a day trying to figure out why the results were wonky. I also can't count the time I've wasted when I just tried some random tube in a new product, then discovered one side was bad/noisy/whatever.

Bottom line: if you want certainty, go solid state.

 

[Rensek]

The cheap ones were extremely hard to match, and many were noisy. We were spending too much time matching them. Hence, gone. Life's too short. (Though we did keep a whole box around for burn-in.)

Hey thanks.

Cheap doesn't cut it when it impacts the quality of the product you're putting out