[Ableza]

 
I hate to tell you this, but EVERYTHING we see and hear, and what we think of them, are perceptions.  

On that you and I definitely agree. 
 
Synergy is a construct based on perceptions.  It exists only in the minds of users.  Which makes it "real" for the person experiencing it, regardless of whether or not it is founded in any objective truth.  Much like most of audio. 

 

[RCBinTN]

  Hey, is it huge difference between delta-sigma and multibit Gungnir, sound wise? I just wonder is it worth 400€. Thanks

 
I owned the original Gungnir, then decided to spend the $500 and upgrade to the MB.  IMO, that was the single best investment I've ever made to my HP rig.  The music SQ improved so much that I can't really describe it very well - more details, better soundstage, now the HD800 have bass, just on and on.  It just works - it's the real thing.  I know these comments are subjective, but when you make the upgrade, you will be very happy.
 
Best -
RCB

 

[Tom Blake]

 
​to me the lcd2 sounded closed in like you were listening to two little speakers next to you, then on the iCAN pro it sounds like you are in a room full of music like they should sound imo. it opened them up and made beautiful music together. I tried the he400i and I think they sounded better on the iCAN pro too? so it seems to me the lower tier sets seem to improve more than the higher end headphones on the better amp (to my ears). I'm still letting it play 24 hrs a day to break it in.

Yes the iCAN Pro is truly an endgame amp. SO happy with mine! It's versatility is unequaled also. I eagerly await the companion iDSD Pro DAC that appears to be coming soon. I am waiting to see what that is like before deciding whether to upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby or not.

 

[winders]

 
Synergy is a construct based on perceptions

 
Not true at all. But you go ahead believe that if you need too. Synergies abound in nature and in science.
 
Look here:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

 

[Ableza]

You seem to think this is some kind of debate. No matter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[winders]

You seem to think this is some kind of debate. No matter.
 

 
I am not the one saying that synergies are constructs fabricated in our minds. You might as well say there world is flat.

 

[AverageGuyNC]

Yes the iCAN Pro is truly an endgame amp. SO happy with mine! It's versatility is unequaled also. I eagerly await the companion iDSD Pro DAC that appears to be coming soon. I am waiting to see what that is like before deciding whether to upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby or not.

Yeah I like mine a lot. Just not a huge difference from my jotunheim to me. Especially after I adjust the eq. And I don't have any headphones that need that much power. I'm going to listen more of course. Just was figuring I would replace the jotunheim with it but not sure if it's worth 4x the price

What is it that you like so much? Is it the sq or mainly the features like bass boost

 

[Tom Blake]

Yeah I like mine a lot. Just not a huge difference from my jotunheim to me. Especially after I adjust the eq. And I don't have any headphones that need that much power. I'm going to listen more of course. Just was figuring I would replace the jotunheim with it but not sure if it's worth 4x the price

What is it that you like so much? Is it the sq or mainly the features like bass boost

I would say it's both. The sound quality is worth at least 2X the Jot cost for me. I was never that impressed with the LCD-2's on the Jot. The features are worth the other 2X cost differential for me. I love having both the SS and Tube Hybrid modes. Depending on recording they both sound great with the LCD-2's. I am a basshead and the LCD-2's respond really well to the X-Bass control. I leave it on 10 Hz all the time and sometimes push it to 20 Hz. 40 Hz is too much of a good thing 

 I also like the 3D control. I listen to a lot of bad recordings and it really helps open them up. A better comparison in the Schiit lineup would be the Mjolnir 2 vs. the iCAN Pro. Even if the sound quality is much closer between them the extra features on the iCAN Pro would be worth it to me. I paid full price for my iCAN Pro and find it worth every penny. The forthcoming iDSD Pro has extreme competition though at $2K so it had better really deliver. I can upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby for only $500 so it will have to be tremendous to warrant the extra $900 (I have $600 into my used Gungnir).

 

[DWbirdseye]

Seems reasonable to me to think that synergy would play a role in sound quality. Afterall it's called chemistry between human beings, and pairing between wine and food.

 

[AverageGuyNC]

  I would say it's both. The sound quality is worth at least 2X the Jot cost for me. I was never that impressed with the LCD-2's on the Jot. The features are worth the other 2X cost differential for me. I love having both the SS and Tube Hybrid modes. Depending on recording they both sound great with the LCD-2's. I am a basshead and the LCD-2's respond really well to the X-Bass control. I leave it on 10 Hz all the time and sometimes push it to 20 Hz. 40 Hz is too much of a good thing 

 I also like the 3D control. I listen to a lot of bad recordings and it really helps open them up. A better comparison in the Schiit lineup would be the Mjolnir 2 vs. the iCAN Pro. Even if the sound quality is much closer between them the extra features on the iCAN Pro would be worth it to me. I paid full price for my iCAN Pro and find it worth every penny. The forthcoming iDSD Pro has extreme competition though at $2K so it had better really deliver. I can upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby for only $500 so it will have to be tremendous to warrant the extra $900 (I have $600 into my used Gungnir).

​Well as I let the iCAN pro break in, I'm more impressed with the sound quality. One thing that's really odd to me is I seem to notice a bigger improvement in sound quality in my lower end cans ( ldc2 and he400i ) with it than with my higher end cans (lcd3 and th900)?! I love the way the lcd2 sounds with it, but didn't notice much difference with the lcd3 over the Jotunheim. I will have to go back and a/b the two amps tho. I really like the bass boost. It seems like I get some distortion when I boost the bass with the EQ but sounds really clean when I use the boost on the amp for some reason? I got my iCAN on sale so I can get my money back out of it and try something else if I don't like it. Its my first tube amp but cant easily roll tubes.  

 

[potterma]

   
I am not the one saying that synergies are constructs fabricated in our minds. You might as well say there world is flat.

Interesting debate.  May a 3rd Engineer throw in a thought or two?
Copernicus was a heretic.  According to the Holy Roman Church he was dead wrong in his theories.  Remember, the Church WAS the scientific body of the day.  Copernicus, as it turned out,  was right...
 
Ever stand in a window on a sunny winter day and marvel at the warmth pouring through the pane?  Of course, today, we know that it is due to mid- and long-wave IR emission from the sun that is transmitted through the glass, converted to heat and sensed by our amazing nervous system as pleasantly warm.  We can put numbers on the wavelength ranges, the incident power per unit area can be quantified.  Not so long ago, it was a mystery.  It just felt good.  It stirred something in someone, though...
 
I find many qualities in musical enjoyment that I can't quantify.  Perhaps, someday, 5, 10 or 100 years from now we may be able to put numbers and new, unnamed units, to describe "synergy", "sound stage" or hell, even "euphonic".  And don't even get me started on "burn in"!!
 
Respectfully, look back at the history of the units you use every day: Hertz, Amps, Volts, Coulombs, Watts, Joules, Calories, Candela,  ... The list is very, very long... Might there be room for a few we haven't thought of yet? Or, are we so arrogant to think and posit that "The Science I Know Today is the Culmination of ALL Science!" or "Whatever there is to be learned has been learned already"?

 

[Baldr]

Now I will be the first to admit that I am a fan of the Gungnir.  Hardly surprising I suppose.  The Gungnir (Gumby variant) is the second in a line of steadily decreasing price multibit DACs.  I am a believer in multibit DACs as being more satisfying in a sense of transmitting emotions inherent in the music.  I have been building audio DACs since the early 1980s and gave up on them in the early nineties as multibits were being phased out in favor in delta sigma DACs (cheaper, measure well, but devoid of feeling).  Now this is only my feeling and entirely anecdotal.  There are many who agree with me, and those who do not.  I believe in it enough to devote considerable design energies into a line of four multibit DACs.  Based upon my sales and client feedback, there are many who must feel what I feel in(from) the music.
 
As an aside, I have observed many singers auditioning for regional musicals.  Believe it or not, there are those who would audition who are tone deaf.  Thankfully, the majority are not.  The point here is that there is a similar range of listening ability here as well.  Some may require approval or qualification of their opinions from experts or opinion leaders, others not.  I say here that listeners' abilities vary widely, and I have had much to learn from them over the last 40 years or so.  For example, I have seen evidence that tone perception is teachable.
 
What is my point?  It is that everyone hears what they hear and are entitled to just that.  I cannot pretend to know what anyone else perceives and have no right to tell them why they are deaf or wrong.  All I can do is build the most satisfying equipment I can.  If you agree on what sounds good, now that is a plus.  If you do not, well then we still have in common a wonderful hobby.
 
As I write, I am listening to a Beethoven Missa Solemnis on period instruments with a Gungnir and a prototype MP (A project I cover more on my own thread) and am feeling quite satisfied.  I hope all of you are as well.

 

[US Blues]

  Now I will be the first to admit that I am a fan of the Gungnir.  Hardly surprising I suppose.  The Gungnir (Gumby variant) is the second in a line of steadily decreasing price multibit DACs.  I am a believer in multibit DACs as being more satisfying in a sense of transmitting emotions inherent in the music.  I have been building audio DACs since the early 1980s and gave up on them in the early nineties as multibits were being phased out in favor in delta sigma DACs (cheaper, measure well, but devoid of feeling).  Now this is only my feeling and entirely anecdotal.  There are many who agree with me, and those who do not.  I believe in it enough to devote considerable design energies into a line of four multibit DACs.  Based upon my sales and client feedback, there are many who must feel what I feel in(from) the music.
 
As an aside, I have observed many singers auditioning for regional musicals.  Believe it or not, there are those who would audition who are tone deaf.  Thankfully, the majority are not.  The point here is that there is a similar range of listening ability here as well.  Some may require approval or qualification of their opinions from experts or opinion leaders, others not.  I say here that listeners' abilities vary widely, and I have had much to learn from them over the last 40 years or so.  For example, I have seen evidence that tone perception is teachable.
 
What is my point?  It is that everyone hears what they hear and are entitled to just that.  I cannot pretend to know what anyone else perceives and have no right to tell them why they are deaf or wrong.  All I can do is build the most satisfying equipment I can.  If you agree on what sounds good, now that is a plus.  If you do not, well then we still have in common a wonderful hobby.
 
As I write, I am listening to a Beethoven Missa Solemnis on period instruments with a Gungnir and a prototype MP (A project I cover more on my own thread) and am feeling quite satisfied.  I hope all of you are as well.

Baldr- when I have an 'MP' running in my system with a pair of Vidar's I'll be happy as Schiit!
 
And your point about hearing and emotion in music is wonderfully articulate, thank you.

 

[joebobbilly]

I've been waiting or the last few months in the front of the queue for the multibit upgrade and they just keep teasing me with the backordered estimate date moving back each time

. I had thought I'd kill time reading through this thread, but it has only fed the desire! The current Gungnir DS was already a sublime treat for me when I upgraded from a Fiio E17 several years back. I can only hope that the wait will not be much longer!

 

[byttle]

When I asked yesterday they told me next week, if not sooner for my au naturel gumby.