[Dan Lee]

So I got a question for my fellow Freya owners. I've been using the Freya for a couple months now and have switched out a few tubes and am finding it rather hard to tell much difference in the overall addition it makes to the sound. I've owned other tube amps and preamps in the past that made more of a drastic and noticeable difference in overall tonality and soundstage and other enjoyable things.

I guess my question would be are their any tubes you are aware of that will make a more noticable difference? In the past I've used some more expensive tubes and found the sound to be much more magical. Is it worth it to spend a $200 to $300 on a pair of red base or raytheon vt231's?

Thanks for any words of advice.

 

[Dueprocess]

So I got a question for my fellow Freya owners. I've been using the Freya for a couple months now and have switched out a few tubes and am finding it rather hard to tell much difference in the overall addition it makes to the sound. I've owned other tube amps and preamps in the past that made more of a drastic and noticeable difference in overall tonality and soundstage and other enjoyable things.

I guess my question would be are their any tubes you are aware of that will make a more noticable difference? In the past I've used some more expensive tubes and found the sound to be much more magical. Is it worth it to spend a $200 to $300 on a pair of red base or raytheon vt231's?

Thanks for any words of advice.

I originally used the Tung-Sols that came w. my Freya for about a year, and then I picked up some RCA GTBs ('56-'60).
I noticed a big difference, and I much prefer the RCAs. The Tung-Sols MAY have been a bit quieter (i.e. measured noise at tweeter w. no source), but the RCAs are clearer and seem to color the sound less. The Tung-Sols also seemed to have more bloom.

I find the RCAs bring all the soundstage benefits of the Tung-Sols without much of the distortion. If you're looking for a recognizable "tubey" sound, maybe the Tung-Sols are the way to go... they stick out and draw more attention to themselves, whereas the RCAs are more subtle; they sound similar to the JFET stage -- certainly a bit warmer, but they bring better imaging (at the cost of slight noise, which while audible at tweeter, usually isn't at the listening position).

 

[KoshNaranek]

So I got a question for my fellow Freya owners. I've been using the Freya for a couple months now and have switched out a few tubes and am finding it rather hard to tell much difference in the overall addition it makes to the sound. I've owned other tube amps and preamps in the past that made more of a drastic and noticeable difference in overall tonality and soundstage and other enjoyable things.

I guess my question would be are their any tubes you are aware of that will make a more noticable difference? In the past I've used some more expensive tubes and found the sound to be much more magical. Is it worth it to spend a $200 to $300 on a pair of red base or raytheon vt231's?

Thanks for any words of advice.

I personally cannot tell the difference between Red base and standard base RCA tubes. When those tubes were made, the difference in spec was shock resistance. They were placed in Army Artillery from the 50's to make up part of the fire control computer(analog computer). I though Raytheon VT231 were fantastic for imaging until I realized that the lacked bass and were not good for Rock. I prefer standard RCAs at this point. have not found my perfect tube and I am wondering I should just get a Freya S as the standard Freya is a bit of a fussbudget.

 

[Zurv]

Thanks for the reply! I’m a huge fan of Tube world and he’s recommending
Sylvania 6SN7GTB
It’s quad matched for $200. I may just go with those. But I really have to admit, the stock tubes are pretty darn good. I have a newer Freya.

I got them from tube world (express)

(!!!!!) (Best 6SN7GTB Quad) 6SN7GTB Sylvania NOS 1970 era same date codes original boxes - 6SN7GTB Sylvania NOS matched quad × 1

and i like them.. and i dislike them
They bring the bass, but too much of it (sometimes very harsh bass, but not boomy.) The base is moved so far forward that it over takes everything else. This was a deal breaker for me. Yes, on some content it totally worked, but others it killed. For example, James Taylor's Fire and Raid (2019 remaster) the bass (instrument) takes over. Everything else is in the background, including Mr Taylor. They do work well when for a source that has equally warm content - say something from Nona Jones - the balance of the song isn't changed and it just sounds great.
For me, i change music around a lot, and changing tubes on the fly is a pain in the butt - so these aren't for me....
... well.. in all 4 tubes
I do still use them, but on the left side. The right side (gain, which has the biggest impact) i use the Zalytron (CBS - Hytron 5692) and i really like them. Those are the ones i like the best in my small collection of 6SN7 tubes.
Mixed with the Elac AMT (JET5) the highs are amazing. The mid are silky. hrmm.. yummy . Great sound stage. I'm sure there are better tubes, but i'm happy now with what i have. Yes, the bass is there too (not boomy ... you bass crazy people.
(have Bad Guy by Billie Eilish playing now)


My order (for my limited tube library)
1. CBS - Hytron 5692 (with Sylvania in buffer stage)
2 Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB
3. Sylvania 1970 era 6SN7GTB (These are better than the Tung-Sol expect when it isn't - ie, the bass can sometimes be fatiguing and harsh for some content)
4 JJ 6SN7 (stock) - it is fine

My personal tube nightmare is with the 6922s for the schiit mj2. ugh. i have so many tubes i don't like. That said, i think the problem might not be the tubes, but the god damn bright HD800s... At some point my logic was it was cheaper to get tubes to fix the problem, but i think i spend almost the cost of the hd800s on tubes. (Which is still cheaper than finding a new headphone, which i'll look at after this fall's release of nvidia cards.)

My loop:
PC Qobuz -> usb -> Schiit Yggdrasil (A2/Unison) -> XLR -> Freya+ -> XLR -> Vidar monoblocks -> Elac BS 403.2

remember, the whole loop matters. What sounds good on my system might not work for yours. (FYI i really love my Elac BS 403 for near field - if someone is looking for suggestions for bookshelf speakers.)
Maybe if 6SN7 tubes worked on my mj2 the sylvania's bass monsters might sound great battling the bright HD880s - but they can before a problem for my desktop near field speaker setup.

 

[thomaskong78]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shootout-of-nos-6sn7-tubes.932083/page-2

I had done shootout of 6sn7 tubes in LIne Magnetic 508.

Also I have Freya in my headphone system.

I had tried several combinations of 6sn7 in Freya.

So far I am happy with Kenrad vt231 at gain stage and Sylvania vt231 at buffer stage to drive Kgsshv Carbon amp for Stax 009s and Jot R for Raal sr1a.

it sounds natural with excellent details.

 

[Dan Lee]

I personally cannot tell the difference between Red base and standard base RCA tubes. When those tubes were made, the difference in spec was shock resistance. They were placed in Army Artillery from the 50's to make up part of the fire control computer(analog computer). I though Raytheon VT231 were fantastic for imaging until I realized that the lacked bass and were not good for Rock. I prefer standard RCAs at this point. have not found my perfect tube and I am wondering I should just get a Freya S as the standard Freya is a bit of a fussbudget.

Thanks for your response. I always enjoyed the Raytheon VT231's when I had the WA22. I just ordered a matched pair of Ken Rad VT231's and another pair of the Raytheon VT231's. I'm hoping the bass the Ken Rads are known for will have a nice synergy with the Raytheon's, but we shall see. If that doesn't work out as well as I like I me letting the Freya go to save a bit of money till I find reemployment.

 

[Zurv]

Also I have Freya in my headphone system.

What headphone AMP are you using? no pre- in it? XLR?

 

[Ram18]

Hi All

Am new to this forum. Never knew there were so many Schiit enthusiasts here. I should have joined earlier. I wish to upgrade my audio experience with the Schiit Freya + preamp and am hoping to get your views.

I have gotten a node 2i. I tried connecting my node 2i via my Onkyo RZ 830 to my Class D XTZ A2 -300 power amp and then did a comparison with a direct connection with just the node 2i directly connected to the XTZ power amp without the Onkyo. Am using normal RCA cables, nothing fancy.

The node 2i connected to the XTZ was much better. I used my node 2i to control the vol. It was a night and day difference. The vocals were much more clearer, very alive, great bass ( and this is without my two subs the bass was really loud so I had to turn the gain on my XTZ down a little. The openness, transparency and width of soundstage was also much more revealing as compared to routing the node 2i via my onkyo. Was really impressed with the bass though. Music is pretty good now.

Now am thinking of adding the Schiit Freya + preamp as the final upgrade. Am hoping to get some musical refinement next with my audio set up. I have never owned tubes. All my amps are solid state. But now am intrigued by tubes esp the lush airy feel it gives. Hoping the Freya + can give me this feel.

Would like to seek your views if the sound signature would be even better if I run the node 2i to the Schiit Freya + preamp connected to my power amp; as compared to running node 2i direct to the power amp as I have it now. Anyone has tried the node 2i with the Schiit Freya + to share their experience? This would really help my consideration in my purchase of the Freya +. I am deciding more on the Freya + as opposed to the Saga + as the tube mode seems to be better in the Freya + vs Saga + as per some of the reviews I have researched on.

I will possibly use the Schiit SYS to switch between music via node 2i and Freya + and movies with the Onkyo.

I currently have my Klipsch 6000f fronts a matching centre and Marantz UD 70007 CD /SACD/Blueray player and two 10 inched subs along with Jamo surrounds and front height speakers.

Will also be using my Marantz to connect to the Schiit Freya as well . So planning to run music without subs and HT via Onkyo and use the Schiit SYS as a switch between both.

As am unable to audition to the Schiit Freya + here; I am reliant on my research and opinions.

Really appreciate your thoughts. It would be very helpful.

 

[Dueprocess]

Hi All

Am new to this forum. Never knew there were so many Schiit enthusiasts here. I should have joined earlier. I wish to upgrade my audio experience with the Schiit Freya + preamp and am hoping to get your views.

I have gotten a node 2i. I tried connecting my node 2i via my Onkyo RZ 830 to my Class D XTZ A2 -300 power amp and then did a comparison with a direct connection with just the node 2i directly connected to the XTZ power amp without the Onkyo. Am using normal RCA cables, nothing fancy.

The node 2i connected to the XTZ was much better. I used my node 2i to control the vol. It was a night and day difference. The vocals were much more clearer, very alive, great bass ( and this is without my two subs the bass was really loud so I had to turn the gain on my XTZ down a little. The openness, transparency and width of soundstage was also much more revealing as compared to routing the node 2i via my onkyo. Was really impressed with the bass though. Music is pretty good now.

Now am thinking of adding the Schiit Freya + preamp as the final upgrade. Am hoping to get some musical refinement next with my audio set up. I have never owned tubes. All my amps are solid state. But now am intrigued by tubes esp the lush airy feel it gives. Hoping the Freya + can give me this feel.

Would like to seek your views if the sound signature would be even better if I run the node 2i to the Schiit Freya + preamp connected to my power amp; as compared to running node 2i direct to the power amp as I have it now. Anyone has tried the node 2i with the Schiit Freya + to share their experience? This would really help my consideration in my purchase of the Freya +. I am deciding more on the Freya + as opposed to the Saga + as the tube mode seems to be better in the Freya + vs Saga + as per some of the reviews I have researched on.

I will possibly use the Schiit SYS to switch between music via node 2i and Freya + and movies with the Onkyo.

I currently have my Klipsch 6000f fronts a matching centre and Marantz UD 70007 CD /SACD/Blueray player and two 10 inched subs along with Jamo surrounds and front height speakers.

Will also be using my Marantz to connect to the Schiit Freya as well . So planning to run music without subs and HT via Onkyo and use the Schiit SYS as a switch between both.

As am unable to audition to the Schiit Freya + here; I am reliant on my research and opinions.

Really appreciate your thoughts. It would be very helpful.

If you're going to run single ended (RCA) over balanced, you may want to go the Saga route, in the interest of $. Saga, obviously, is cheaper, and it also doesn't require 4 tubes like Freya, so tube rolling is less expensive, assuming you want to experiment.

When it comes to whether or not Freya / Saga might improve the sound...Some prefer adjusting volume in the analog domain as opposed to in the digital domain (myself included), and if that's your preference, I'd say, yes, Freya / Saga will make an improvement. In addition, if you want to try tubes, again, a vote for Freya / Saga.

As far as arguments against the aforementioned preamps... (if adjusting volume in the digital domain is okay with you) less is typically more when it comes to the signal path.

 

[Ram18]

Hi Dueprocess

Tks for the useful insights. I have considered the Saga as am only using RCA and as you rightly pointed out, its more cost effective and less expenses with tube roll. It also has some good reviews. The only thing I gathered was the Saga in terms of tube effect may not be as good as the Freya +. Thats my concern, as I do wish for good tube sound without losing openness, clarity and details as well as soundstage. The 3 modes (Tube , JFET and Passive) in Freya + also comes handy. Thats why I have Freya + in my mind. Though the Saga option cost wise is a draw.

Pardon my ignorance. May I check what do you mean by using analogue dimensions. You mean not using an optical cable and just use analogue RCA connectors? I idont intend to use optical. I prefer analogue RCA options in terms of connections . My power amp does not have balanced XLR options hence cant use the Freya + balanced connections at least for now.

So you gather analogue (RCA) wise the Saga and Freya + serving as a preamp to node 2i to my power amp would yield it to be more musical than node 2i direct to my power amp now? Point taken that optical wise may be neater not to have an additional preamp in the chain.

Appreciate your views

 

[Dueprocess]

Hi Dueprocess

Tks for the useful insights. I have considered the Saga as am only using RCA and as you rightly pointed out, its more cost effective and less expenses with tube roll. It also has some good reviews. The only thing I gathered was the Saga in terms of tube effect may not be as good as the Freya +. Thats my concern, as I do wish for good tube sound without losing openness, clarity and details as well as soundstage. The 3 modes (Tube , JFET and Passive) in Freya + also comes handy. Thats why I have Freya + in my mind. Though the Saga option cost wise is a draw.

Pardon my ignorance. May I check what do you mean by using analogue dimensions. You mean not using an optical cable and just use analogue RCA connectors? I idont intend to use optical. I prefer analogue RCA options in terms of connections . My power amp does not have balanced XLR options hence cant use the Freya + balanced connections at least for now.

So you gather analogue (RCA) wise the Saga and Freya + serving as a preamp to node 2i to my power amp would yield it to be more musical than node 2i direct to my power amp now? Point taken that optical wise may be neater not to have an additional preamp in the chain.

Appreciate your views

Freya and Saga are only preamps (no DAC). As such, they only carry analog signals. They control volume by attenuating the analog signal. When I referred to "digital" and "analog" domain, my reference was volume control. From your description, it sounds as if you are using the Node as a DAC, in which case all connections post-Node would be analog, be they RCA, XLR, TRS, etc. (Alternatively, you could purchase a separate DAC and run Node > optical > DAC > Saga / Freya, but it didn't sound like that was your plan.)

I am not certain whether the Node 2i handles volume control digitally or via analog.

Many, myself included, prefer to control volume in the analog domain -- i.e. like Freya / Saga -- via attenuation of the analog signal. Others prefer to control volume in the digital domain (before the signal is converted to an analog wave). There are pros and cons to each approach.

If the Node controls volume in the analog domain, you are likely better off using Saga / Freya to control volume (and leaving the Node at max), as they use a rather sophisticated stepped attenuation system -- one of the perks of these preamps. Assuming the Node uses analog volume control, its implementation is likely (I don't know for sure) inferior.

If the Node controls volume in the digital domain, whether you want to add a piece to the chain to control volume using an analog implementation is up to you. Some would say you should, others would argue against it. It's worth looking into if you are curious. As i said before, both solutions are imperfect and have their pros and cons.

All that being said, if you want to listen to tubes... go for Saga / Freya regardless. And, if cost is not a factor, take Freya for the potential to run balanced.

 

[KoshNaranek]

Hi Dueprocess

Tks for the useful insights. I have considered the Saga as am only using RCA and as you rightly pointed out, its more cost effective and less expenses with tube roll. It also has some good reviews. The only thing I gathered was the Saga in terms of tube effect may not be as good as the Freya +. Thats my concern, as I do wish for good tube sound without losing openness, clarity and details as well as soundstage. The 3 modes (Tube , JFET and Passive) in Freya + also comes handy. Thats why I have Freya + in my mind. Though the Saga option cost wise is a draw.

Pardon my ignorance. May I check what do you mean by using analogue dimensions. You mean not using an optical cable and just use analogue RCA connectors? I idont intend to use optical. I prefer analogue RCA options in terms of connections . My power amp does not have balanced XLR options hence cant use the Freya + balanced connections at least for now.

So you gather analogue (RCA) wise the Saga and Freya + serving as a preamp to node 2i to my power amp would yield it to be more musical than node 2i direct to my power amp now? Point taken that optical wise may be neater not to have an additional preamp in the chain.

Appreciate your views

I have Saga and Freya in their Original Generation form. I actually PREFER Saga to Freya. It has a lower noise floor, which is heard best in the upper frequencies to me. The single tube makes it easier to deal with. My favorite tube is an early 70s Hitachi. Just TRY and find a matching quad of those.

I would replace Freya with another Saga except I like running Twin Vidar amps in my big room.

 

[Dueprocess]

I have Saga and Freya in their Original Generation form. I actually PREFER Saga to Freya. It has a lower noise floor, which is heard best in the upper frequencies to me. The single tube makes it easier to deal with. My favorite tube is an early 70s Hitachi. Just TRY and find a matching quad of those.

I would replace Freya with another Saga except I like running Twin Vidar amps in my big room.

FYI: Freya+ has significantly reduced noise over Freya (I've had both). No idea how Saga compares to Freya+, but I have heard great things about Saga. (I also require balanced, so Freya+ it is for me.)

 

[Ram18]

Freya and Saga are only preamps (no DAC). As such, they only carry analog signals. They control volume by attenuating the analog signal. When I referred to "digital" and "analog" domain, my reference was volume control. From your description, it sounds as if you are using the Node as a DAC, in which case all connections post-Node would be analog, be they RCA, XLR, TRS, etc. (Alternatively, you could purchase a separate DAC and run Node > optical > DAC > Saga / Freya, but it didn't sound like that was your plan.)

I am not certain whether the Node 2i handles volume control digitally or via analog.

Many, myself included, prefer to control volume in the analog domain -- i.e. like Freya / Saga -- via attenuation of the analog signal. Others prefer to control volume in the digital domain (before the signal is converted to an analog wave). There are pros and cons to each approach.

If the Node controls volume in the analog domain, you are likely better off using Saga / Freya to control volume (and leaving the Node at max), as they use a rather sophisticated stepped attenuation system -- one of the perks of these preamps. Assuming the Node uses analog volume control, its implementation is likely (I don't know for sure) inferior.

If the Node controls volume in the digital domain, whether you want to add a piece to the chain to control volume using an analog implementation is up to you. Some would say you should, others would argue against it. It's worth looking into if you are curious. As i said before, both solutions are imperfect and have their pros and cons.

All that being said, if you want to listen to tubes... go for Saga / Freya regardless. And, if cost is not a factor, take Freya for the potential to run balanced.

Thanks for your detailed explanation. I am now aware what you meant. The analogue volume control is certainly a plus in the Freya/ Saga. Am not sure if node 2i uses vol control in the digital domain though.

Glad your Saga serves you well. I have read many reviews about Saga being very refined and musical as well. My only concern is will I be losing out on the tube effect with the Freya + as Saga only has one tube. And some have said there is little difference between the passive and tube mode in the Saga. I think you would know best. How is the tube compared to the passive in your opinion? And how did the single tube compared to the Freya since you owned both? This would be a good reference.

Havent really ruled out the Saga yet as another concern I have is the gain issues. My Klipsch 6000f speakers are highly efficient. Plus my XTZ power amp has a gain feature. I now have to lower the gain on the XTZ when I use my node 2i cause it gets too loud or bass heavy at higher volumes. So am.wondering will I face these gain issues with the Freya + as compared to the Saga as I have read tje Freya + in tube mode adds a bit of gain.

Am just hoping to get a more musical emotional feel with the upgrade. Right now the sound is good clear and crisp with some good soundstage. Just hoping to retain these aspects, while getting a more involving emotional/holographic or musical feel.

As for the new Freya + they have reduced the noise floor as I have read.

 

[Ram18]

FYI: Freya+ has significantly reduced noise over Freya (I've had both). No idea how Saga compares to Freya+, but I have heard great things about Saga. (I also require balanced, so Freya+ it is for me.)

Hi. May I ask how is the Freya + in tube mode? As i have shared am looking for a more musical/holographic feel and a better soundstage while retaining the merits of clarity, transparency and opennes which I have with my solid state amp and node 2i/Marantz. Also did you face any gain issues esp in tube mode which is my concern if I get the Freya +. As shared am running Klipsch which are high efficiency speakers and my XTZ power amp has a gain feature. Not sure if the Freya + will add too much gain.