[Charente]

Ok, I just read the @Baldr quotes by @bosiemoncrieff ... so in answer to my question about USB power on the Hercate...it would seem that any isolation efforts are meaningless ? So, what is the answer ?

 

[Baldr]

  Ok, I just read the @Baldr quotes by @bosiemoncrieff ... so in answer to my question about USB power on the Hercate...it would seem that any isolation efforts are meaningless ? So, what is the answer ?

Isolation is a very good thing.  "Goat schiit isolation" or "Galvanic isolation" are not strictly defined.  Electrostatic or electromagnetic or DC isolation are.  My pet peeve is that it is a buzzword that is used to describe many different things which can be confusing.

 

[Charente]

 
Isolation is a very good thing.  "Goat schiit isolation" or "Galvanic isolation" are not strictly defined.  Electrostatic or electromagnetic or DC isolation are.  My pet peeve is that it is a buzzword that is used to describe many different things which can be confusing.

 
Thank-you... definitely being in the 'confused camp', I find resources such as Head-Fi (fellow members & your good-self) invaluable in trying to resolve the fact vs marketing dilemma. I'm getting there...slowly.

 

[Clemmaster]

Galvanic isolation just means that there is no conductive link between 2 circuits. The end.
 
It is useful for electrical transmissions over long distance, where you can't guarantee that the ground potential of both circuits won't be several volts apart, which then creates issues like ground loops or even (potentially) hazardous voltage.
It is used by Ethernet networks, for instance, because it was designed to run over long length, where the equipment can be as far apart as 100 meter (328ft). This creates the potential for both equipment to be powered by different branches of the power network, with a significant ground offset between them.
 
Sad to see that it became a Marketing argument that confuses people into thinking it provides perfect isolation against every sort of noise, when not all implementations are created equal (optical vs transformer).

 

[MarkF786]

For a USB-to-SPDIF converter to sound better than the Bifrost's USB card, wouldn't that indicate that the former converter is doing a better conversion from usb to digital audio?  Or is the just the benefit of the electrical isolation (at least when using an optical cable) that is purported?

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

You can definitely hear the benefits of galvanic isolation when you use $100+ USB cables and $300+ headphone cables. Those three items always "open up the mids" and get rid of whatever nagging issue a headphone is famous for, no matter what the issue is - I'm talking taming the HD800's 6kHz spike AND adding clarity to an LCD-3!

They're also famous for helping you lose those 15lbs for swimsuit season.

 

[bronzboy]

Personally, I like coax so I can watch cable TV too.

 

[Charente]

  For a USB-to-SPDIF converter to sound better than the Bifrost's USB card, wouldn't that indicate that the former converter is doing a better conversion from usb to digital audio?  Or is the just the benefit of the electrical isolation (at least when using an optical cable) that is purported?

For me it is not a case of trying to get SPDIF to sound 'better' than USB... I just find the SPDIF sound signature different and preferable when listening to certain genres of music. Of course, it must be as good quality (as I can afford).

 

[earnmyturns]

   
Yes, I was concerned about that...so, would the 'isolation' that they have designed into the Hercate product not mitigate the problem of USB power ?..or, would a powered converter ALWAYS prove to be a better approach, given attention to a decent power supply. I have just taken delivery of the Uptone LPS-1 for my microRendu, and the improvement was quite significant in my setup....just down to the power supply in the same way.

What an outside high-quality power supply provides is clean DC power that reduces the injection of electrical noise downstream of the USB>S/PDIF converter. The "isolation" in the Hecate and similar devices can't quite do that because of of the device's circuitry is powered by the source's power via USB, both on the USB and on the S/PDIF sides of the device. It's pretty complex and expensive to "make" clean power from dirty power, especially when you get into subtle effects like leakage currents. That's why I power my sources with ultracap DC power supplies, which decouple DC power for the source from everything else. I pay a premium for that, but then any isolation techniques that the source uses will not be undermined by electrical noise coming from the power supply.

 

[Charente]

  What an outside high-quality power supply provides is clean DC power that reduces the injection of electrical noise downstream of the USB>S/PDIF converter. The "isolation" in the Hecate and similar devices can't quite do that because of of the device's circuitry is powered by the source's power via USB, both on the USB and on the S/PDIF sides of the device. It's pretty complex and expensive to "make" clean power from dirty power, especially when you get into subtle effects like leakage currents. That's why I power my sources with ultracap DC power supplies, which decouple DC power for the source from everything else. I pay a premium for that, but then any isolation techniques that the source uses will not be undermined by electrical noise coming from the power supply.

 
Thank-you...I understand.... and experienced that in practice when powering the uRendu with the UltraCap. A big difference even to my (not-so-golden-anymore) ears. A good converter with decent power supply is quite an investment !

 

[theveterans]

  For a USB-to-SPDIF converter to sound better than the Bifrost's USB card, wouldn't that indicate that the former converter is doing a better conversion from usb to digital audio?  Or is the just the benefit of the electrical isolation (at least when using an optical cable) that is purported?

 
Even with just a USB to SPDIF coaxial literally powered with cell phone charger, it's a lot cleaner than the ones from USB alone. I just power my W4S uLink with a samsung S6 charger which can output 9V that the unit requires. Zero issues with electrical noise with that in place

 

[MarkF786]

So now you've guys piqued my curiosity.  Doing some research on the CM6631A chip (as used in the Schiit USB Gen 2) to the XMOS chip (as used in Wyred4Sound uLink), there are reports that the XMOS is less flaky on the Mac.
 
Is the Wyred4Sound uLink the best option for a USB to S/PDIF converter in it's price range (or less)?  Any others contenders to consider?

 

[artur9]

  Is the Wyred4Sound uLink the best option for a USB to S/PDIF converter in it's price range (or less)?  Any others contenders to consider?

I tried 3, with an attempted 4th.  All ordered through Amazon.  
 
The Gustard I ordered never showed so never got to hear it.
Tried a Phiree U2S but it was terrible.  And it cut the volume by like 75%.
Then tried a Peachtree X1 and it was ok.  Didn't like that I couldn't power it separately from the USB so got the uLink instead.
 
I'm thinking of selling mine and the LPS I got for it since I now have a non-USB Bryston BDP-1.  

 

[Tuneslover]

Can someone describe what electrical noise sounds like. I guess I haven't heard (or noticed) any type of electrical interference before. Maybe I have this problem and ignorantly don't realize that I do.

 

[Charente]

..... Maybe I have this problem and ignorantly don't realize that I do.

 
That was the case for me when I bought the Uptone LPS-1...a power supply !... I didn't know I had the noise problem before, until it wasn't there any more.