Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread.

[mab1376]

Is the DAC chip itself upgradeable?
 
Also can anyone speak on the synergy with this DAC and the LD MK IV SE amp?
 
I'm getting a DAC soon and I have quite a few to consider, and i'd like to get some feedback.

 

[Argo Duck]

Great description of Bifrost 45!
 
@TEH completely agree with your approach!
 
When a piece of equipment is less reviewed however, there's also a bit of - hmm - reverse engineering/analysis to do on people's impressions... X says this about Y and X seems to hear things like this compared to me so to my ears it might sound like ... it can take a lot of close reading and analysis!
 
Quote:

Hey Sphinxvc--
 
Presuming you mean the PS Audio DL III, that is the DAC I used for over two years before getting the Bifrost. My DL III is modded by Cullen Circuits.
 
Big differences are tonal balance and detail. The PS Audio is more "analog" sounding. Most people understand this to mean warmer, with the top end less emphasized and a bit more mid and low bass. The DL III is exceedingly pleasant to listen to and removes all trace of digital nasties.
 
The Bifrost is lean and mean (like me, at least the mean part is like me...) and does not add any energy to the bass. That is not to say the Bifrost lacks bass - as I have confirmed on many cuts it does go all the way down. This may lead some to call the Bifrost thin or bright, but that's only in comparison to more colored DACs. The Bifrost is a bit like the genius child who says exactly what's on his mind regardless of the social setting. Illuminating if perhaps ocassionally uncomfortable.
 
On the cut Coffee Homeground from her Lionheart album, Kate Bush belts out "lipstck smeared" in a high voice, followed immediately by a strong flute note. Reproduced poorly, these events can be excrutiating. The Bifrost delivers all the power of Kate' voice - you get the feeling she's not only putting her whole diaphragm into it but probably standing on her toes as well - without going over the edge. Likewise the flute is enough to make you jump, but in a good way.
 
The Bifrost is also hyper-detailed. Touches that might usually be lost in the mix are almost floated on their own whether on phones or speakers. On albums that tend to come across like sonic walpaper, this can be a great thing, letting in more space and light. With some recordings, though, the Bifrost almost disassembles the mix, giving a trees-rather-than-forest perspective. Or to put it another way, spotlighting the individual stitches over the whole tapestry. This seems to occur more often over phones.
 
I also think the Bifrost tends to convey more eneregy, more pace to the music. It's worth keeping in mind that the PSA DL III is an upsampling DAC where Schiit expectorates all over upsampling.
 
If you prefer beauty over unvarnished truth, you might very well prefer the DL III. If you can't bear to think there might be information you might be missing, the Bifrost gets the nod. Also, the PS Audio is made in the People's Republic of China, while the Schiit is made in the USA (well, the People's Republic of California.)
 
These days, I'm using the Bifrost more and the DL III less.

 

 

[sling5s]

Really well put and well said.
 
Quote:

Hey Sphinxvc--
 
Presuming you mean the PS Audio DL III, that is the DAC I used for over two years before getting the Bifrost. My DL III is modded by Cullen Circuits.
 
Big differences are tonal balance and detail. The PS Audio is more "analog" sounding. Most people understand this to mean warmer, with the top end less emphasized and a bit more mid and low bass. The DL III is exceedingly pleasant to listen to and removes all trace of digital nasties.
 
The Bifrost is lean and mean (like me, at least the mean part is like me...) and does not add any energy to the bass. That is not to say the Bifrost lacks bass - as I have confirmed on many cuts it does go all the way down. This may lead some to call the Bifrost thin or bright, but that's only in comparison to more colored DACs. The Bifrost is a bit like the genius child who says exactly what's on his mind regardless of the social setting. Illuminating if perhaps ocassionally uncomfortable.
 
On the cut Coffee Homeground from her Lionheart album, Kate Bush belts out "lipstck smeared" in a high voice, followed immediately by a strong flute note. Reproduced poorly, these events can be excrutiating. The Bifrost delivers all the power of Kate' voice - you get the feeling she's not only putting her whole diaphragm into it but probably standing on her toes as well - without going over the edge. Likewise the flute is enough to make you jump, but in a good way.
 
The Bifrost is also hyper-detailed. Touches that might usually be lost in the mix are almost floated on their own whether on phones or speakers. On albums that tend to come across like sonic walpaper, this can be a great thing, letting in more space and light. With some recordings, though, the Bifrost almost disassembles the mix, giving a trees-rather-than-forest perspective. Or to put it another way, spotlighting the individual stitches over the whole tapestry. This seems to occur more often over phones.
 
I also think the Bifrost tends to convey more eneregy, more pace to the music. It's worth keeping in mind that the PSA DL III is an upsampling DAC where Schiit expectorates all over upsampling.
 
If you prefer beauty over unvarnished truth, you might very well prefer the DL III. If you can't bear to think there might be information you might be missing, the Bifrost gets the nod. Also, the PS Audio is made in the People's Republic of China, while the Schiit is made in the USA (well, the People's Republic of California.)
 
These days, I'm using the Bifrost more and the DL III less.

 
 

 

[internethandle]

Quote:

Is the DAC chip itself upgradeable?
 
Also can anyone speak on the synergy with this DAC and the LD MK IV SE amp?
 
I'm getting a DAC soon and I have quite a few to consider, and i'd like to get some feedback.

Yes, part of the modular aspect of the Bifrost is that the board which contains both the DAC chip and the analog discrete output circuit are upgradable, for if/when Schiit decides to do so (the other upgradable portion is the USB board).
 
I can't comment on the LD MK IV SE and the Bifrost, but I'm currently using a LD MK III with it and it's been a good combination - given all the comments about Bifrost's "bright" qualities/leaning away from warm or analog, one of my first reactions to the combo was actually that the Bifrost accentuated or brought into better relief the MK III's tubes/warmth than my last DAC (a Keces DA-151 USB DAC).
 
 
 
 
 

 

[drexman]

i sent schiit an e-mail at info@schiit.com 2 days ago and they didn't respond yet.

if they don't respond i won't buy it.

 

[Misterrogers]

Bounce your question again to jason@schiit.com. It's highly unusual for them to take more than an hour to respond, but this is the gift giving season, and I know they're dealing with huge demand for most of their gear.
 
Quote:

i sent schiit an e-mail at info@schiit.com 2 days ago and they didn't respond yet.

if they don't respond i won't buy it.

 

 

[drexman]

thanks i'll try jason@schiit.com
 
Edit: he answered quickly

 

[45longcolt]

Thanks, Sling5s and AiDee, I hope people find my impressions useful. And, AiDee, I have enjoyed reading your reports as well. You are correct that we all must read carefully, in order to judge how others' views and experiences will jibe with ours. That's why I try to define terms like "warm" or "analog."
 
I've had a lot of fun with the Bifrost, It was cheap enough to buy on spec, as it were; even though I too live in California and thus must pay sales tax. I notice Schiit amps (Lyr and Valhalla) are in the latest Audio Advisors catalog. No Bifrost, which must mean Schit is still back-ordered.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Hey Sphinxvc--
 
Presuming you mean the PS Audio DL III, that is the DAC I used for over two years before getting the Bifrost. My DL III is modded by Cullen Circuits.
 
[...]

45longcolt, thanks for the detailed comparison, I read it earlier, but didn't have a chance to respond at work.  The Bifrost sounds promising, especially for pairing with the HD650s.  I thought the PS DL III might be on a different level and seeing a couple on the FS forums I thought I might as well leap frog to one of those, but it seems the Bifrost is more than able to keep up, nice.  
 
Cheers. 

 

[judmarc]

Bifrost Fuse
 
Another member and I have found the fuses in our Bifrosts are apparently 1 amp fast blow (F1AL250V) rather than .5 amp slow blow.  Trying to look into it before folks possibly do replacements with incorrect values.

 

[sferic]

Quote:

On the cut Coffee Homeground from her Lionheart album, Kate Bush belts out "lipstck smeared" in a high voice, followed immediately by a strong flute note. Reproduced poorly, these events can be excrutiating. The Bifrost delivers all the power of Kate' voice - you get the feeling she's not only putting her whole diaphragm into it but probably standing on her toes as well - without going over the edge. Likewise the flute is enough to make you jump, but in a good way.
 
 

Ah one of my favorite KB tracks!!! "Reproduced poorly...can be excruciating." That's definitely true of Kate. That said, even with a boatload of audiophile crud (Martin Logan speakers, Krell Amps, CD Players) my roommates say she is excruciating no matter what. LOL, you know what I'm talking about.
 
The Bifrost is a great machine, an improvement over my Apogee Duet! Using Optical out of a Mac Pro & quite happy, seems the real controversy is over SPDIF vs USB. Happy with SPDIF, when I get a spare benjamin I'll try out the USB just for fun.
 
And back to Kate - "50 Words for Snow" seems quite controversial. One reviewer on Amazon called it "50 Words for Crap". I adore my vintage Kate, but all I'll say about this latest album is I listened to it once and haven't been back. "Aerial" was bordering on aimless, but I still enjoy it. 

 

[sampson_smith]

Funny. "50 Words for Snow" has consistently been winding up on many of the best-of-year lists. There is little that is very controversial about universal acclaim. Unless it is undue. But then the masses would disagree.

 

[judmarc]

Quote:

Bifrost Fuse
 
Another member and I have found the fuses in our Bifrosts are apparently 1 amp fast blow (F1AL250V) rather than .5 amp slow blow.  Trying to look into it before folks possibly do replacements with incorrect values.

Just wanted to follow up and confirm that the stock fuse appears to be 1 amp fast blow rather than .5 amp slow blow.
 

 

[45longcolt]

Judmarc - thanks for the fuse info. Do you know if the Lyr uses the same?
 
Sphinxvc - I definitely would choose the Bifrost over the PS DL III. Unless I just had to have the kinder, gentler presentation. (Which may be a byproduct of oversampling, or a design choice, or just becasue the DL III is an "old" product - at least in digital years, which make dog years look leisurely. Digital gear is getting better faster to the extent I wouldn't spend megabucks [$5K-$20K+] on a DAC because it will be overtaken next month by a $1K product. In fact I suspect PS Audio will have a new model out soon - just a guess. But I digress)
 
Please don't get the idea the Bifrost can't commit acts of sonic beauty. Just listened to the cut "Mary" from Robert Fripp's Exposure album (1981 - 2006 remaster.) Terre Roche's voice was lovely, the guitar washes sublime. Gabriel's "Here Comes the Flood" was likewise deeply affecting (most of the rest of that album will paste you against the ceiling if you crank it, of course.)
 
As to Kate, sferic, she is wonderfully served by the Bifrost. She used to play with her vocals the way a cat plays wioth a trapped mouse, and this DAC makes the result not just bearable but enjoyable. (i.e. The Dreaming.) Just listened to the second disc of Aeriel and revelled in the detailed presentation, the bass and the way I could easily understand what was being sung and played.
 
And when it comes to 50 Words for Snow, Dirge is the word that comes to mind. I keep meaning to play it again, but having to pysch myself up to do so, well that says something right there. Guess what they say about pilots (there are old, and bold, but no old bold) applies to rock stars as well. A friend says if he doesn't immediately take to an album he just puts it on repeat for a few days until he gets used to it. Shades of Clockwork Orange. I say why bother.
 
But, to get back on topic, the Bifrost is well worth bothering with. Killer for the bucks. And I can't wait to see what Schiit does for a statement product.
 

 

[TEH725]

Got back from my trip and listened again with about 72 hours of burn-in.  This dac really seems to benefit from burn in as has been pointed out.   I think someone else said "smoother but no loss in the details," to which I have to agree. 
 
I have also done more headphone listening rather than just speaker listening.  Even more detail than from speakers and I don't have to have the volume up nearly as much.  I have to say I am going to do a lot more headphone listening.  I'll probably be back on the forum in a month or two looking for headphone suggestions.