[Luckyleo]

What about the Chord Qutest? Does it have a volume control on macOS?

Wish I had known about this volume control thing with Schiit DACs prior to buying one.

I believe it is closer to all DACS? I'm not sure, it's just my understanding

 

[Quiz]

Okay, didn't know that. I am coming from desktop PCs with internal sound cards like the Titanium HD and AE-9. They let you control the volume in Windows so I was assuming a USB DAC would be the same. This is my first USB DAC.

 

[roderickvd]

I believe it is closer to all DACS? I'm not sure, it's just my understanding

No, it’s not. For example, Denafrips DACs as well as my Singxer SDA-6 let it control volume over USB just fine.

 

[roderickvd]

I did some quick research and some are saying the Sys actually sounds better than the higher end Schiit preamps like the Saga but then others are saying the opposite.

I'm just a little confused because of all the contradicting information I've read/seen.

Probably personal preference and/or system synergies between passive and active solutions.

 

[Luckyleo]

No, it’s not. For example, Denafrips DACs as well as my Singxer SDA-6 let it control volume over USB just fine.

Thanks for that info. I sit corrected!

Leo

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I did some quick research and some are saying the Sys actually sounds better than the higher end Schiit preamps like the Saga but then others are saying the opposite.

I'm just a little confused because of all the contradicting information I've read/seen.

People say things that have no basis in reality. The Sys should have no "sound" as it is literally a couple of wire traces and a good quality volume pot. That doesn't stop some from convincing themselves otherwise.

The higher end Saga, Freya, and Kara are more complex than the Sys. They also use a better volume pot or stepped resistor ladder attenuation (best for channel balance at lower volumes amongst other things). In passive mode, all are audibly transparent. And, they all use a better volume pot/attenuator than the Sys. Some even have a remote control.

Buy based on your budget and case use. In your application, none of the Schiit offerings should have any audible differences in your setup.

 

[Neweymatt]

No, it’s not. For example, Denafrips DACs as well as my Singxer SDA-6 let it control volume over USB just fine.

You can control volume out to the Bifrost2/64 over USB just fine from either Windows or Mac. On the former I use the built-in Volume Mixer System setting:

and on the latter I use the outstanding SoundSource app from RogueAmoeba.

https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/


I'd try either of those for free before looking at a SYS. Or, just get the SYS anyway if you want to switch the SE out from the Bifrost2 to 2 separate amps. It's cheap enough, and you'll probably find many other uses for it.

 

[Quiz]

Any comments/opinions on how the RME ADI-2 DAC FS compares to the Bifrost 2/64?

 

[G8torbyte]

Any comments/opinions on how the RME ADI-2 DAC FS compares to the Bifrost 2/64?

I own both and I like each for different reasons. The RME-ADI 2 has a large amount of built in functions to adjust the output and has a nice software interface/dashboard they call "ADI-2 Remote" that makes it easy to change settings, parametric EQ and other customizations. See here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=39029
RME is a pro-audio company and some of the the audio mixing functionality carries over in the ADI-2.

I like the Bifrost 2/64 in that it seems to have more resolution and a pure processing of the music in it's non-oversampling (NOS) mode. The Bifrost 2/64 only has two modes, NOS and Schiit's proprietary signal filter.

The main difference between the two is the digital-to-analog conversion process. The Bifrost 2/64 is a resistance ladder R-2R configuration on a chip which they call their "True Multibit" architecture. The RME uses delta-sigma processing with either AKM or ESS chips similar to many other DACs.

From Schiit: " we named it True Multibit™ because there’s a lot of confusion over what is really multibit and what isn't. Some companies refer to multilevel delta-sigma D/A converters as “Multibit” DACs. While kinda-sorta-maybe technically correct, this is pretty misleading. 2 to 5 bits of actual resolution plus massive amounts of noise shaping is not true multibit. Hence, True Multibit. We use True Multibit to denote DACs that have 16-20 actual bits, rather than multilevel noise-shaping delta-sigma DACs, coupled with our unique combination of time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter, based on math first proposed by Western Electric in 1917, and developed into usable algorithms by a team that included a professor emeritus of math and a Rand Corp mathematician. It’s unlike any other digital filter today, and we believe it provides the closest thing to a true interpolation, while retaining the original samples as closely as possible."

Some reviews of the Bifrost 2:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews

 

[tylerindianapolis]

I own both and I like each for different reasons. The RME-ADI 2 has a large amount of built in functions to adjust the output and has a nice software interface they call "ADI-2 Remote" that makes it easy to change settings, parametric EQ and other customizations. See here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=37784
RME is a pro-audio company and some of the the audio-mixing functionality carries over in the ADI-2.

I like the Bifrost 2/64 in that it seems to have more resolution and a pure processing of the music in it's non-oversampling (NOS) mode. The Bifrost 2/64 only has two modes, NOS and Schiit's proprietary signal filter.

The main difference between the two is the digital-to-analog conversion process. The Bifrost 2/64 is a resistance ladder R-2R configuration on a chip which they call their "True Multibit" architecture. The RME uses delta-sigma processing with either AKM or ESS chips similar to many other DACs.

From Schiit: " we named it True Multibit™ because there’s a lot of confusion over what is really multibit and what isn't. Some companies refer to multilevel delta-sigma D/A converters as “Multibit” DACs. While kinda-sorta-maybe technically correct, this is pretty misleading. 2 to 5 bits of actual resolution plus massive amounts of noise shaping is not true multibit. Hence, True Multibit. We use True Multibit to denote DACs that have 16-20 actual bits, rather than multilevel noise-shaping delta-sigma DACs, coupled with our unique combination of time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter, based on math first proposed by Western Electric in 1917, and developed into usable algorithms by a team that included a professor emeritus of math and a Rand Corp mathematician. It’s unlike any other digital filter today, and we believe it provides the closest thing to a true interpolation, while retaining the original samples as closely as possible.

Some reviews of the Bifrost 2:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews

I almost purchased the RME but I decided not to because I am tired of these AKM and ESS promises of always being better… something about the sound they deliver just turns into pain when listening with headphones. I moved to get a Danafrips with a Danafrips DDC. Waiting on them but in the meantime I have a Modi MB2 in NOS and that sounds good. Not sold it is better than the Phillips R2R for easy listening but way better than ANY AKM or ESS and I have heard a lot.

 

[Quiz]

I've been told that studio monitors have an input impedance of, normally, 10k ohms and the Sys has an output impedance of maximum 5k ohms. They said the following:

A 5K ohm output impedance to a 10K ohm input impedance will sound weak and anemic like AM radio due to power losses from poor damping factor.

Is this true? Even the Saga+ (in passive mode) has a maximum output impedance of 4.8k ohms.

 

[theveterans]

Yes. That statement is true. Passive pre works really well with 100K ohm input impedance loads but suffers with dynamics and punch (aka AM radio sounding per quote) with lower impedance downstream amplifiers:

https://tortugaaudio.com/what-is-a-passive-preamplifier/

Why Not Passives?​

Will a passive always outperform an active preamp? Simply put, no. There will be always be exceptions where the combination of source and amp simply are not a good fit. Here are the two most common issues.

Impedance Mismatch​

Using a passive preamp between a high impedance source and a low impedance amp may overwhelm the ability of the source to drive the audio signal without negative effects. Negative effects like flabby sound lacking in dynamics and punch.

On the other hand its been our experience (and more important that of our customers) that this rarely happens with our LDR passive preamps. An impedance ratio of 100:1 or greater (amp input : source output) is almost certain to work well with passive preamps. For example, a DAC with a 500 ohm output impedance and a solid state amp with a 50k ohm input impedance all but certain to be a good match for a passive preamp. Passive preamps will also work well with practically any tube amp because tube amps have very high input impedances (typically 1 megaohm).

 

[Quiz]

Thanks.

So the Saga+ would be better in active mode vs. passive mode when used with powered studio monitors?

 

[theveterans]

For context, Schiit Saga+ in tube mode acts as a voltage buffer which helps "maintain" the maximum dynamics/punch from the DAC signal (Saga+ uses tube to provide the buffer rather than transistors on a solid state active preamplifier).

From the same website: https://tortugaaudio.com/what-is-a-passive-preamplifier/

Regardless of the level of gain (or absence of gain, i.e. unity gain), all active preamps buffer the input from the output. A buffer acts as an electronic firewall between the source and the amp. A good buffer has very high input impedance making the job of the source very easy. Easy means the source puts out very little current while sending out the audio signal (i.e. voltage). Conversely, a good buffer has very low output impedance and high current delivery capacity making it compatible with virtually every amplifier in the world regardless of the amp’s input impedance. This broad compatibility is arguably the only benefit of active preamps. A good buffer can enhance the dynamics (pluck, punch, slam etc.) of the music if the source isn’t quite up to the job.

For studio monitors, to ensure you won't have sound quality issues from impedance mismatching between the sub input and preamp, just use any active preamp you want. Saga+ stacks nicely with the Bifrost 2/64 as a bonus

 

[Quiz]

So, I ordered a Sys before knowing any of this info. It's already on the way. I contacted Schiit requesting them to cancel the order. However, they said that I'll have to pay the restocking fee (unless I purchase a product higher up on the line before they process my refund) and return shipping charges. They said I can't refuse the delivery and I'll have to ship it back on my cost. I live in Dubai and FedEx is quoting around $300 for shipping. I don't think it is worth returning if I have to pay for shipping myself.

So, what do I do? Keep it or try to sell it locally?