[Spy Car]

Good move; the A3/HD6 has wonderful synergy. When you’re ready, you can scale that combo WAY up with a dac that will really unravel detail and have true timbre. (assuming music files of at least Redbook quality). Bifrost 2 or other dac of that quality is not unreasonable to combine with them. Have fun!

For now, I got an internal 4490 DAC card in the Asgard 3.

My one discontent with the experience at the Schiitr was they had no simple way to interface 4490 based systems with their Roon-based audio streaming system. For whatever reason, the way they have it set up is incompatible with anything but their multi-bit DACs. I really wanted to A/B the multi-bit card and the delta-sigma card. Oh well.

Comparing the multi-bit card with the 4490 wasn't easy (had to patch in a laptop)and compare less-than-choice CDs. They acted like I was the first person to whom such a test mattered.

All my files are at least 16/44.1, with a large and growing library of 24-bit recordings.

I did add a cool extension to my (Mac-based) iTunes called BitPerfect ($10) that manages the bit-rates for output to the DAC to keep the data optimal without need into manually reset the data rates. It makes an audible difference and very convenient.

Bill

 

[tafens]

To my ears, there was no contest between the Asgard 3 and the Magni Heresy/Modi stack. Not that the latter is bad, but the Asgard 3 sounded much better to me. Especially on the high end. Listening to Coltraine's sax on Blue Trane was so smooth on the Asgard 3. In contrast, the Magni Heresy sounded "edgy" to my ears. Too bad, because the Magni Heresy is very cute and I like the small size.

I liked the Asgard 3 at least as much (if not more) than the Lyr and the Jotunheim. Clear winner.

Heh, I wish I could visit the Schiitr someday, but it is a bit far for me.. like 5500 miles far
(yes, five thousand five hundred,
and a big tub of moderately deep water.. )

Anyway, it would be interesting to know what aspect of sound or otherwise made you decide for the Asgard3 over Lyr3 and Jotunheim?

 

[tafens]

Comparing the multi-bit card with the 4490 wasn't easy (had to patch in a laptop)and compare less-than-choice CDs. They acted like I was the first person to whom such a test mattered.

I don’t doubt you experience, but it sounds odd, as they have had at least one (two, I think) events with blind listening to D/S vs Multibit dacs.
Given that, I got the impression they would care about such things.

 

[tafens]

I did add a cool extension to my (Mac-based) iTunes called BitPerfect ($10) that manages the bit-rates for output to the DAC to keep the data optimal without need into manually reset the data rates. It makes an audible difference and very convenient.

I tried that one. Unfortunately there was no trial version or trial period because although it worked fine, I found it to be a bit of a hassle. Even though it integrated with iTunes you’d have to start it separately. And, I didn’t think it sounded better than the standard sound system. Actually slightly worse. The sound might have been technically better, I don’t know, but if so my ears/brain finds the imperfections of the standard sound system more pleasing

 

[Spy Car]

Heh, I wish I could visit the Schiitr someday, but it is a bit far for me.. like 5500 miles far
(yes, five thousand five hundred,
and a big tub of moderately deep water.. )

Anyway, it would be interesting to know what aspect of sound or otherwise made you decide for the Asgard3 over Lyr3 and Jotunheim?

I must admit that most of my focus of comparison was spent between the Magni Heresy and the Asgard 3. There I found no contest using my Drop HD6xxs over which amp I preferred. Not a close call. Especially when it came to things like saxophone attacks.

I honestly wanted to prefer the Magni/Modi stack.

With the Lyr3 and Jotunheim--I must admit--I wanted to prefer the Asgard 3 and just wanted to do "due diligence" in case spending a bit more would bring very obvious value. I liked all 3. The Jotunheim seemed a little less powerful w/o a balanced headphone, the Lyr seemed ever so slightly warmer. I liked the Asgard 3.

I would not call my "testing" of the Lyr3 or Jotunheim definitive in any measure.

Very superficial, but enough of a listen for me to walk away without any sense of regret.

If that makes sense.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

I don’t doubt you experience, but it sounds odd, as they have had at least one (two, I think) events with blind listening to D/S vs Multibit dacs.
Given that, I got the impression they would care about such things.

I have no doubts that someone working for Schiit could make such blind testing happen. Such a person was not holding down the fort at the Schiiter and the guy who was there was unable to get the guy in charge of their network on the phone. He actually disassembled "my" Asgard 3 thinking the DAC card might not have been seated properly. It was. The fault is in their set up.

Trust me, it seemed very odd to me that their Roon-based system is not (by default) set up to work with both multi-bit DACs and 4490 DACs.

But it is not.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

I tried that one. Unfortunately there was no trial version or trial period because although it worked fine, I found it to be a bit of a hassle. Even though it integrated with iTunes you’d have to start it separately. And, I didn’t think it sounded better than the standard sound system. Actually slightly worse. The sound might have been technically better, I don’t know, but if so my ears/brain finds the imperfections of the standard sound system more pleasing

I'm finding BitPerfect mostly stays active as long as iTunes isn't shut down. And it does what it purports to do--which is to send the DAC either the native bit-depth/sampling rate of the files being played back (or user pre-selected upsampling options)--without the user (me) having to go into the Mac's MIDI settings each time I play a recording with a different bit-depth/sampling rate.

I think it is brilliant. Starting a Hi-Def recording with it off and then enabling BitPerfect to send a native stream (or upsampling) to the DAC makes a huge difference to my ears. Well worth the $10 and any "hassle" of enabling BitPerfect is far (far) less than changing the outputs on the Mac every time I change formats.

I've only played with this for a few days, but I'm finding BitPerfect extremely useful.

Bill

 

[tafens]

I must admit that most of my focus of comparison was spent between the Magni Heresy and the Asgard 3. There I found no contest using my Drop HD6xxs over which amp I preferred. Not a close call. Especially when it came to things like saxophone attacks.

I honestly wanted to prefer the Magni/Modi stack.

With the Lyr3 and Jotunheim--I must admit--I wanted to prefer the Asgard 3 and just wanted to do "due diligence" in case spending a bit more would bring very obvious value. I liked all 3. The Jotunheim seemed a little less powerful w/o a balanced headphone, the Lyr seemed ever so slightly warmer. I liked the Asgard 3.

I would not call my "testing" of the Lyr3 or Jotunheim definitive in any measure.

Very superficial, but enough of a listen for me to walk away without any sense of regret.

If that makes sense.

Bill

Makes perfect sense, thanks!

 

[tafens]

I'm finding BitPerfect mostly stays active as long as iTunes isn't shut down. And it does what it purports to do--which is to send the DAC either the native bit-depth/sampling rate of the files being played back (or user pre-selected upsampling options)--without the user (me) having to go into the Mac's MIDI settings each time I play a recording with a different bit-depth/sampling rate.

I tried messing around in the MIDI settings before getting BitPerdect, and yes, it definitely is a lot more convenient than doing that

I think it is brilliant. Starting a Hi-Def recording with it off and then enabling BitPerfect to send a native stream (or upsampling) to the DAC makes a huge difference to my ears. Well worth the $10 and any "hassle" of enabling BitPerfect is far (far) less than changing the outputs on the Mac every time I change formats.

At $10, it is also quite a lot more affordable than the other alternatives for bitperfect playback, like Audirvana (which, to its defence, is a complete player, library and everything, but still)

I've only played with this for a few days, but I'm finding BitPerfect extremely useful.

I agree the hassle is minor, in essence it’s learning to start it instead of iTunes as it starts iTunes for you iirc. Ultimately, I think it was that the subtle differences I heard wasn’t in its favour.
Can’t really explain. It didn’t sound “right” to me, like the some of the sound was concentrated in the middle of my head without it really being a smaller sound stage. I had my mind set that I should like it too (bit-perfect playback should be good, the price is good, what was not to like?) Perhaps something is off in my system, perhaps I’m just biased towards the “normal” sound of the standard sound system.. But, I’ll probably return to it and try again some day..

 

[Spy Car]

I tried messing around in the MIDI settings before getting BitPerdect, and yes, it definitely is a lot more convenient than doing that



At $10, it is also quite a lot more affordable than the other alternatives for bitperfect playback, like Audirvana (which, to its defence, is a complete player, library and everything, but still)



I agree the hassle is minor, in essence it’s learning to start it instead of iTunes as it starts iTunes for you iirc. Ultimately, I think it was that the subtle differences I heard wasn’t in its favour.
Can’t really explain. It didn’t sound “right” to me, like the some of the sound was concentrated in the middle of my head without it really being a smaller sound stage. I had my mind set that I should like it too (bit-perfect playback should be good, the price is good, what was not to like?) Perhaps something is off in my system, perhaps I’m just biased towards the “normal” sound of the standard sound system.. But, I’ll probably return to it and try again some day..

I was half-way tempted to try Audirvana to get automatic bit-perfect playback, but have been confused about how it deals with an iTunes library. I have a fair amount of recording (about 4,000 albums) and am used to iTunes. But needing to switch the output manually would have been a hassle.

While trying to figure out how to overcome the one issue I had with iTunes, I ran into the Bit Perfect app.

Now I need to ponder what happens to my album art if I move to Catalina and iTunes is replace by "Music."

If you get a chance, I'd try listening to Bit Perfect again. I bounce all over the place between 16/44.1 and 24-bit recordings of various sampling rates and this applet has been very useful.

One caveat, in the Preferences one needs to select "Default to Fixed Indexing" (which is, for some unexplainable reason is not the default setting) which gives one gapless playback by lining up the next track in advance and crossing seamlessly. A huge portion of my music is live concerts and performances where gapless is a must.

I see now that you have many of the amps that I previewed hurriedly. Might I ask about your longer-term impressions?

Bill

 

[tafens]

I was half-way tempted to try Audirvana to get automatic bit-perfect playback, but have been confused about how it deals with an iTunes library. I have a fair amount of recording (about 4,000 albums) and am used to iTunes. But needing to switch the output manually would have been a hassle.

While trying to figure out how to overcome the one issue I had with iTunes, I ran into the Bit Perfect app.

Now I need to ponder what happens to my album art if I move to Catalina and iTunes is replace by "Music."

I also looked toward Audirvana, but didn’t find a clear answer to whether it would play my iTunes library or not.

I can tell you though, that BitPerfect works with Music in Catalina, and my album covers show up just as they did before. There were a few bugs at first, where covers were not always displayed and browsing was limited by returning you to the top as soon as you pressed the back button from the album view, but those are fixed now.

If you get a chance, I'd try listening to Bit Perfect again. I bounce all over the place between 16/44.1 and 24-bit recordings of various sampling rates and this applet has been very useful.

One caveat, in the Preferences one needs to select "Default to Fixed Indexing" (which is, for some unexplainable reason is not the default setting) which gives one gapless playback by lining up the next track in advance and crossing seamlessly. A huge portion of my music is live concerts and performances where gapless is a must.

I still have BitPerfect installed, so I’ll try it from to me to time. My collection is mostly 44.1 and 48, but it pains me to have the setting permanently at 44.1 for the 48 and occasional higher frequency ones. I currently have standard outsetting (I think) which is 24 bit@192.
Thanks for the fixed indexing tip, I do have some gapless live albums that would benefit from that.

I see now that you have many of the amps that I previewed hurriedly. Might I ask about your longer-term impressions?

Well, I mostly run the Bifrost2 into the Lyr3 (with new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB), and I only had a brief listen once to the Jotunheim (SE output, not balanced). Headphone used is HD6XX in all cases.

When I listened to the Jotunheim I felt that it was very wide, but a bit dry sounding compared to the Lyr3 (multibit card on both).

The Asgard3 compared to the Lyr3 (both on Bifrost2) I feel has less wide/deep soundstage (more in your head), is less engaging/less dynamic, has less low end bass/more upper mids emphasis and is perhaps a bit more dry sounding (not as much as the Jotunheim though). As always with tube amps, the tube used has a bit to do with how things sound.

When it comes to the Magni3 (on Modi multibit) which I also have (not 3+/Heresy), I hear it as more closed in than all of the above and less detailed/resolving.

The differences are not night and day anywhere, but in long-term listening they matter to me nonetheless.

 

[Spy Car]

I also looked toward Audirvana, but didn’t find a clear answer to whether it would play my iTunes library or not.

I can tell you though, that BitPerfect works with Music in Catalina, and my album covers show up just as they did before. There were a few bugs at first, where covers were not always displayed and browsing was limited by returning you to the top as soon as you pressed the back button from the album view, but those are fixed now.



I still have BitPerfect installed, so I’ll try it from to me to time. My collection is mostly 44.1 and 48, but it pains me to have the setting permanently at 44.1 for the 48 and occasional higher frequency ones. I currently have standard outsetting (I think) which is 24 bit@192.
Thanks for the fixed indexing tip, I do have some gapless live albums that would benefit from that.



Well, I mostly run the Bifrost2 into the Lyr3 (with new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB), and I only had a brief listen once to the Jotunheim (SE output, not balanced). Headphone used is HD6XX in all cases.

When I listened to the Jotunheim I felt that it was very wide, but a bit dry sounding compared to the Lyr3 (multibit card on both).

The Asgard3 compared to the Lyr3 (both on Bifrost2) I feel has less wide/deep soundstage (more in your head), is less engaging/less dynamic, has less low end bass/more upper mids emphasis and is perhaps a bit more dry sounding (not as much as the Jotunheim though). As always with tube amps, the tube used has a bit to do with how things sound.

When it comes to the Magni3 (on Modi multibit) which I also have (not 3+/Heresy), I hear it as more closed in than all of the above and less detailed/resolving.

The differences are not night and day anywhere, but in long-term listening they matter to me nonetheless.

Good to hear that album covers are now showing up in "Music" under Catalina. I've been wanted to upgrade, but have resisted in order to avoid a major project of relinking covers. Especially with the many covers that I've created myself over the years for live non-commercial recordings.

If you have any 24-bit recordings, I suggest using those as the "test" for BitPerfect playback. That's where the advantage of having this applet manage the native files in iTunes really shines for me. If all my files were 16 bit there would be less reason to use it. But feeding the DAC the native resolution (or an upsampling, the latter of which I'm still testing) really opens up the sound to its full resolution.

The "Fixed Indexing" is critical (for me anyway) when using BitPerfect. I was going to get rid of it after I started playing live concerts and it induced a short gap--which was not something I wanted to do given the audible improvements with the correct automatic bit-depth/data rate output. Many users slam the lack of gapless playback in the App Store reviews. But before ditching BP I found the online users manual and read it (novel, huh? LOL.) That's when I found the "fix." I wonder why "Fixed Indexing" isn't a default?

Thanks for your thoughts on the Lyr 3 and the Jotunheim. I'd need more time with the three units, but I tend to see it similarly. I love the idea of having a tube amp (never owned one) and had I not made being thrifty a priority (or if they were giving me one free) I think I'd have gone home with the Lyr 3. That said, pretty close in my short listening. I was also listening to music where the clarity of the upper-mids and treble was especially critical (more so than a fat bass).

Since reading your last post, I've been listening to a bunch of vintage reggae (Peter Tosh/Bob Marley/Burning Spear) to test the bass. What's due to headphones, what's the amp, what's the inherent limitations of headphone technology to move air over a body vs speakers?

I've pretty much been a "speaker" guy (as opposed to a headphone guy).

If I play the same tracks out of my vintage JBL L112 Studio Monitors (12 inch 3-way bass-reflex design) it is a different experience. No doubt.

I'm still grooving on the HD6xx Asgard 3 combo. I like it very much.

I have had a crazy fantasy about how to make headphone listening a "total experience." Ready for this?

A wearable "headphone suit" that would vibrate and simulate the feelings of soundwaves hitting one's body. LOL.

A man can dream.

Bill

 

[tafens]

Good to hear that album covers are now showing up in "Music" under Catalina. I've been wanted to upgrade, but have resisted in order to avoid a major project of relinking covers. Especially with the many covers that I've created myself over the years for live non-commercial recordings.

I discovered the hard way though that 32-bit application support ended with Catalina - most of my games on Steam will not work now, and they don’t seem to have any plan on fixing it..

The "Fixed Indexing" is critical (for me anyway) when using BitPerfect. I was going to get rid of it after I started playing live concerts and it induced a short gap--which was not something I wanted to do given the audible improvements with the correct automatic bit-depth/data rate output. Many users slam the lack of gapless playback in the App Store reviews. But before ditching BP I found the online users manual and read it (novel, huh? LOL.) That's when I found the "fix." I wonder why "Fixed Indexing" isn't a default?

It should be I think, but it may have some undesirable consequences in some ways too, maybe?

Thanks for your thoughts on the Lyr 3 and the Jotunheim. I'd need more time with the three units, but I tend to see it similarly. I love the idea of having a tube amp (never owned one) and had I not made being thrifty a priority (or if they were giving me one free) I think I'd have gone home with the Lyr 3. That said, pretty close in my short listening. I was also listening to music where the clarity of the upper-mids and treble was especially critical (more so than a fat bass).

Since reading your last post, I've been listening to a bunch of vintage reggae (Peter Tosh/Bob Marley/Burning Spear) to test the bass. What's due to headphones, what's the amp, what's the inherent limitations of headphone technology to move air over a body vs speakers?

I should add that the Lyr3 opens up beautifully with the Bifrost2 as DAC instead of the internal multibit card.

I'm still grooving on the HD6xx Asgard 3 combo. I like it very much.

I am also enjoying the HD6XX a lot, it’s a great headphone at a fantastic price

A wearable "headphone suit" that would vibrate and simulate the feelings of soundwaves hitting one's body. LOL.

Now THAT would be something!

 

[Narayan23]

Good to hear that album covers are now showing up in "Music" under Catalina. I've been wanted to upgrade, but have resisted in order to avoid a major project of relinking covers. Especially with the many covers that I've created myself over the years for live non-commercial recordings.

If you have any 24-bit recordings, I suggest using those as the "test" for BitPerfect playback. That's where the advantage of having this applet manage the native files in iTunes really shines for me. If all my files were 16 bit there would be less reason to use it. But feeding the DAC the native resolution (or an upsampling, the latter of which I'm still testing) really opens up the sound to its full resolution.

The "Fixed Indexing" is critical (for me anyway) when using BitPerfect. I was going to get rid of it after I started playing live concerts and it induced a short gap--which was not something I wanted to do given the audible improvements with the correct automatic bit-depth/data rate output. Many users slam the lack of gapless playback in the App Store reviews. But before ditching BP I found the online users manual and read it (novel, huh? LOL.) That's when I found the "fix." I wonder why "Fixed Indexing" isn't a default?

Thanks for your thoughts on the Lyr 3 and the Jotunheim. I'd need more time with the three units, but I tend to see it similarly. I love the idea of having a tube amp (never owned one) and had I not made being thrifty a priority (or if they were giving me one free) I think I'd have gone home with the Lyr 3. That said, pretty close in my short listening. I was also listening to music where the clarity of the upper-mids and treble was especially critical (more so than a fat bass).

Since reading your last post, I've been listening to a bunch of vintage reggae (Peter Tosh/Bob Marley/Burning Spear) to test the bass. What's due to headphones, what's the amp, what's the inherent limitations of headphone technology to move air over a body vs speakers?

I've pretty much been a "speaker" guy (as opposed to a headphone guy).

If I play the same tracks out of my vintage JBL L112 Studio Monitors (12 inch 3-way bass-reflex design) it is a different experience. No doubt.

I'm still grooving on the HD6xx Asgard 3 combo. I like it very much.

I have had a crazy fantasy about how to make headphone listening a "total experience." Ready for this?

A wearable "headphone suit" that would vibrate and simulate the feelings of soundwaves hitting one's body. LOL.

A man can dream.

Bill

I think you might like the Woojer Edge Vest not tried it myself but judging by the reaction of the people who try it on, it might come close to your dream.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...paign=bck-11012019friday&gs_variant=control#/

 

[Spy Car]

I discovered the hard way though that 32-bit application support ended with Catalina - most of my games on Steam will not work now, and they don’t seem to have any plan on fixing it..



It should be I think, but it may have some undesirable consequences in some ways too, maybe?



I should add that the Lyr3 opens up beautifully with the Bifrost2 as DAC instead of the internal multibit card.



I am also enjoying the HD6XX a lot, it’s a great headphone at a fantastic price



Now THAT would be something!

The lack of 32-bit support might bite me in the ass. Maybe I will hold off on Catalina for awhile.

The only thing "Fixed Indexing" does with BitPerfect playback (as far as I understand it) is that it cues the next song to be played in advance (as opposed to seeking the next song when the current one finishes). I don't think there is any impact on sonic integrity. Just no gaps.

I can't hear you telling me about ways to spend more money on amps and DACs because my fingers are in my ears and I'm going: "La, La, La. LOL.

I'm not displeased one bit about getting the HD6xx headphones. Great value. I had some Audio Technica M50s (that aren't bad, but...) and I listened mostly on speakers in any case. Either my vintage (purchased new) classic JBL L112 Studio Monitors from the early 80s or an excellent set of powered Genelec 1040As (made next to you in Finland). Two very different beasts. Both great.

But my circumstances have changed a bit, so being able to have a headphone-based listening station has been important for me.

I do miss "feeling" the music. Would a vibrating bodysuit that simulated airwaves hitting one's body not be awesome?

Bill