Scammer: TRL (Tube Research Labs) / Paul Weitzel
Dec 21, 2008 at 3:24 AM Post #46 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif

..... i;ve got several pieces of his modded gear.......



Now that we've see examples of the poor quality of TRL (Tube Research Labs) / Paul Weitzel's work, it probably would be a good idea for us to see some high quality close ups (at least 1024 X 768) of the modded gear you mention above, so that we might have a balanced opinion?

USG
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 6:14 AM Post #47 of 170
Dec 21, 2008 at 6:55 AM Post #48 of 170
andy: Don't suppose you're up for popping the cover on your SACD player and snapping off a couple of good pictures of the mods? Now we're curious to see if his/their soldering ability is as shoddy as the pictures above.
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 7:17 AM Post #49 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by andyshedd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sorry to see such a nice guy as Paul getting skewered like this. I sent my Sony SACD player to him because the redbook playback seemed harsh to my ears, and I was blown away when I got it back. I saw a review in audio asylum that said the same thing as i experienced. Mind you, I read the review AFTER i had experienced the mod. Hi-Rez Highway: REVIEW: Tube Research Labs Sony SCD-CE 595 SACD Player (Modded) by LKDog


Dude,all the goop HAS to be making all the SQ difference. Can you feel the PRAT of that goop man,CAN YOU FEEL THE BASS EXTENSION FROM THE GOOP?! CAN YOU? I CAN MAN!
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 7:57 AM Post #50 of 170
orig.jpg
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 9:38 PM Post #51 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i can;t see the pix either, but i do know that his mods would not win any modeling contests. the epoxy is for damping, and it is does what it is supposed to do. it is not artistically applied-- aesthetically speaking.


It looks like its there for insulating. $1000 for that kind of job is pretty appalling. He should pay somebody to do the work for him and let him do the thinking if he can't do better then that. Maybe he could fix his turn around time too and actually communicate properly with customers from the reports I'm reading.
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57 PM Post #52 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It looks like its there for insulating. $1000 for that kind of job is pretty appalling. He should pay somebody to do the work for him and let him do the thinking if he can't do better then that. Maybe he could fix his turn around time too and actually communicate properly with customers from the reports I'm reading.


i find it simply amazing that when there is a claim made by one person in an audio forum that it is simply taken at face value, even when that claim flies in the face of hundreds of satisfied customers, several very favorable reviews in well-regarded (e)publications, and a small but well-established business.

"But wait", the detractors and posters lining up to pillory the manufacturer say, "There are photos proving the posters point".

well, i'd like to know how the op can prove that the phots represent the exact state the unit arrived in. granted, the damping "goop" would not win any supermodel competitions, but that's only a cosmetic issue. people are too willing to simply believe the lurid story as-is. do any of you have real, substantiatable first-hand experience with Paul and/or TRL? Interestingly, those that do, speak highly of them. there is a burden of proof here, and two sides to the story-- hearing only one and jumping to a conclusion is at best, intellectually lazy, and at worst, appallingly stupid.

Did the OP actually post any documents verifying what was actually paid for the unit, and what the cost fo shipping was? what parts were substituted? what did the unit look like before shipping to TRL? what did the OP and his skilled companions do to the unit once they got it?


i do not mean to single out the poster i've quoted either. just that the general attitute among the diy crowd is that they seem to think that it is easy to extrapolate from their limited kitchen-table building experiences to what's involved in actual electronics manufacturing, whether small or large scale. i, for example, recently built a headphone amp. the parts that ended up being used total about $600. the total cost of everything which was bought during the project (just parts, no tooling, etc... was almost 5x that amount.) i had lots of conversations with a friend who is a skilled designer, who did not charge me for his time. i also spent lots of time on the net doing research. i borrowed a bunch of headphones from the place i work-- for free. In a business, these expenses wold have added to the price of the product.

developing a mod or a product costs money and time. part of the goal of spending said time and money is to be able to feed one's family. paul's big amps sell in extremely small quantitites which does add to their price-- it has to. there are lots of one off cars on the market that cost in the 100s of thousands of dollars. only an idiot would call them a rip-off since cars can obviously be bought for $20,000, or that detroit could build one of those for 1/3 the price. well, maybe, with the benefits of multi million dollar factories...

anyway, not sure that you should actually infer much of anything anout trl based on the op's rants, other than he does not employ Martha Stewart to apply his damping goop!
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 11:10 PM Post #53 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
anyway, not sure that you should actually infer much of anything anout trl based on the op's rants, other than he does not employ Martha Stewart to apply his damping goop!


other then applying his damping goop to cold soldered partially exposed wires attached to what look like cheap no name rechargeable double A batteries surrounded by burnt plastic? I'm good at stopping there.
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM Post #54 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Now that we've see examples of the poor quality of TRL (Tube Research Labs) / Paul Weitzel's work, it probably would be a good idea for us to see some high quality close ups (at least 1024 X 768) of the modded gear you mention above, so that we might have a balanced opinion?

USG



what you have seen is pictures of a unit. what proof do you have that the unit left the trl factory in exactly that condition?

at most, two parties know the truth. rincewind, and trl. we have one claimant here. and some photos which prove very little.

i don;t know rincewind, but i do know paul, and i own his gear. that gives me at least something to go on-- far more than virtually all of the nay-sayers on this board. yet, at the end of the day, even i can only speculate, because I was ot there- so to speak. why can;t people comprehend the obviouos fact here is that there is no proof to back up any claim here, without some validation of those photos--
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 11:45 PM Post #55 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
what you have seen is pictures of a unit. what proof do you have that the unit left the trl factory in exactly that condition?

at most, two parties know the truth. rincewind, and trl. we have one claimant here. and some photos which prove very little.

i don;t know rincewind, but i do know paul, and i own his gear. that gives me at least something to go on-- far more than virtually all of the nay-sayers on this board. yet, at the end of the day, even i can only speculate, because I was ot there- so to speak. why can;t people comprehend the obviouos fact here is that there is no proof to back up any claim here, without some validation of those photos--



I wanted to compare to some other modified units if anyone would dare open them up and take pictures. From all the people in this thread hyping their own gear from TRL, you would think one of you would say "that actually isn't normal" and then follow with some pictures. I don't see anyone providing anything to say contrary.
 
Dec 21, 2008 at 11:47 PM Post #56 of 170
And what would be rincewind's motive to destroy his own DAC that he paid a lot of money into for mods to try and harm TRL's reputation?
 
Dec 22, 2008 at 12:25 AM Post #57 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by xnothingpoetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And what would be rincewind's motive to destroy his own DAC that he paid a lot of money into for mods to try and harm TRL's reputation?


I agree. This "Paul" guy is outrageous. Like Uncle Erik said, what are these actual "mods" being performed anyways?

And to the defenders... what differences could you hear between the old and new? I mean, how can someone pay big money and not want to compare and see if the mods were noticable anyways?

And we still haven't seen any pictures of this guys work still...
 
Dec 22, 2008 at 1:28 AM Post #58 of 170
The only way to get beyond the he said/she said of this is to come clean about what is actually going on with the mods. Parts and labor have value. So does profit. There's nothing wrong with making money, but it should be for actual goods and services. If someone is charging $1,000 to put epoxy on a chip, well, I think people should know what they're paying for. If that's completely wrong, then it would be a good idea to open up about what is actually being done.

A good example of this happened about a year ago, when someone's cat tore up their power cord. Despite costing quite a bit of money, the power cord was just Home Depot wire inside a garden hose filled with sandblasting medium. There's an extensive thread on it here if anyone wants to read it.
 
Dec 22, 2008 at 2:00 AM Post #60 of 170
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Walsh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
xnothingpoetic, the photos are eye-opening.

FWIW one of the most vocal people who have posted about TRL on Audio Asylum happens to be closely related to PW but uses a fictitious name on AA. Strange.



Not a surprise. Some of them tend to be on the payroll or earning commissions, as well. One "defender" here accidentally admitted to earning commissions.

As for the comment about DIY'ers extrapolating from costs, well, is there any other way to know how much something costs? We see the price breaks for ordering large quantities. We know how much it costs for tools, we can estimate the labor, we know this stuff. I haven't mentioned it here, but I'm an attorney/accountant with a family business. I know the costs of overhead, taxes, and so on. Further, I've talked to a couple of commercial designers; my numbers aren't far off.

One thing that struck me with the legitimate businesses is how open they are about these things. They'll tell you about what it costs to have a case made in large and small quantities. You can also figure this out by ordering from suppliers and asking prices for custom work and quantity orders. This is all out in the open. Don't assume that everyone is unsophisticated about these things. Everything you need to know is publicly available.

When people hide behind that "proprietary" thing there's usually a fog of snake oil hanging in the air.

Of course, this could be entirely legitimate and above board. A simple technical explanation would clear up everything.
 

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