[ClieOS]

Quote:

ClieOS:  I detect a possible protective bias on your part. Are you, for the record, part of the professional industry ... as a developer, promoter or journalist?

No, I make my living in a small family owned bakery located at the small town in Malaysia, if you must know. I just post as a fellow Head-fi'er, occasionally an independent reviewer, and a full-time enthusiast of this portable audio hobby. I do know some of the people who works inside the industry and be friend with them online, and I have no issue if you want to think I might be bias toward them, not that I will agree with you. The Head-fi world is smaller than you might think. If you stick here long enough with passion, eventually you will meet and know people who you might think are unapproachable at first, that's all I want to say about that.
 
On a side note, if you read Chinese, you can read on erji.net regrading Teclast's own T51 (same hardware as s:flo2 but intended for China market only). Far less complaints about hardware issue when compared to Head-fi, but a lot more about sound quality. That should make anyone wonder, is Teclast selling two kind of DAP, or maybe just two group of user reaching different conclusion on the same DAP? In any case, I can tell you that Teclast doesn't quite have a stellar reputation on customer service themselves.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

And you should not be supporting him slacking off either.

Oh I am not supporting him for being a slacker, if he is one or you find him to be one. I am just saying that if some issue can be dealt immediately, he or his company should definitely be responsible and get the job done in a timely manner; but if you are asking why he can't get an answer for you when his contact over at Teclast (and pretty much the whole nation) are all in vacation, I think some reasoning must be in place, that's all.

 

[debitsohn]

then we should be told this. for them to say that they have no way of tracking the progress on our units is mindboggling CS.  and it takes a forum member to tell us that there is chinese holiday that lasts 2 weeks? how many of these two week holidays do they have? 2ndly, it shouldnt have even taken until october 1st.  for you to say its not an issue unique to them, but thast fine, i dont have any other warranty issues with any other product made in china at the moment. if you know youre going to shut down for two weeks and party, you should handle your business b4, especially warranty issues. sales less so but i imagine, their sales department is still processing orders ?  so no, mp4 or telcast do not get a "oh its okay" here. 
 
i think the s:flo sounds wonderful but this is not worth it.  so anyone interested in buying a s:flo, take it for what its worth.
Quote:

Starting from 1st of October every years, China National Holiday generally run for at least two weeks, just so you know. What ever issue you have with any Chinese business in mainland China will be dealt will after the factories / business re-open when the holiday ends, it is not an issue unique to MP4Nation-Teclast communication.
 

 

[DJGeorgeT]

 
I just bought Shigzeo's s:flo2/Teclast T51. I will enjoy it for as long as it stays alive. After that it is going into the trash can.

 

[thesingularity]

Quote:

I just bought Shigzeo's s:flo2/Teclast T51. I will enjoy it for as long as it stays alive. After that it is going into the trash can.

I haven't been thru all the feedback and postings on what most often fails with Teclast/MP4Nation devices.
So what is that (or, to be plural, what are they)? Is it a specific IC component? Or a system or sub-system (e.g. power regulator, chg ckt, batt)?
Frankly, folks, the realization that this soild-state player is poorly-designed and/or cheaply-made should be a wake-up call for this company. I'm sure lots of prospective clients are (after reading this thread) are rightlyfully investing their PMP budget elsewhere. Too bad us suckers and pigeons were also another animal -- guinea pig -- in this company's trial run. If MP4Nation were smart, they'd either close up and disappear  ... or radically shift their ideologies, ethics and, of course, product toplogical design.

 

[debitsohn]

Quote:

I haven't been thru all the feedback and postings on what most often fails with Teclast/MP4Nation devices.
So what is that (or, to be plural, what are they)? Is it a specific IC component? Or a system or sub-system (e.g. power regulator, chg ckt, batt)?
Frankly, folks, the realization that this soild-state player is poorly-designed and/or cheaply-made should be a wake-up call for this company. I'm sure lots of prospective clients are (after reading this thread) are rightlyfully investing their PMP budget elsewhere. Too bad us suckers and pigeons were also another animal -- guinea pig -- in this company's trial run. If MP4Nation were smart, they'd either close up and disappear  ... or radically shift their ideologies, ethics and, of course, product toological design.

 
so true in bold.  and you knwo what even with crappy CS as long as big name reviewers on here say it sounds like heaven in their ears, ppl will buy it (like i did with the s:flo but i have to agree it sounds great... but never gonna fall for that again). and sorry but i highly doubt theyd shift their ideologies or ethics. cash is cash and im sure theyre making a killing.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Sorry if this may be shocking news to you, but "MP4 players" are products that are often considered to be cheap and of bad quality and are made by no-name companies with a get rich quick scheme mentality. I have always wondered if the Mafia is behind the whole MP4 "scene". Unfortunately we lie to ourselves and hope that whatever we buy from these stores such as MP4NATION will hold up long enough. And yes it is a money pit.
 
Quote:

I haven't been thru all the feedback and postings on what most often fails with Teclast/MP4Nation devices.
So what is that (or, to be plural, what are they)? Is it a specific IC component? Or a system or sub-system (e.g. power regulator, chg ckt, batt)?
Frankly, folks, the realization that this soild-state player is poorly-designed and/or cheaply-made should be a wake-up call for this company. I'm sure lots of prospective clients are (after reading this thread) are rightlyfully investing their PMP budget elsewhere. Too bad us suckers and pigeons were also another animal -- guinea pig -- in this company's trial run. If MP4Nation were smart, they'd either close up and disappear  ... or radically shift their ideologies, ethics and, of course, product toological design.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

How were you suckered in? You must have known that you were buying this MP4Nation (which you should have known was in China). In virtually every review I've read, it is mentioned that this is not a polished product. The bugs and bad UI were pointed out many times. The great SQ was also pointed out. I think most people will agree that the S:Flo 2 is a great sounding player. For those of you that don't want to buy from MP4Nation, there are other distributors. As has been said earlier, other places like House of Dap sell the Teclast T51. I don't see how anything was misleading or how you were suckered in? If anything above was incorrect, please let me know.

 

[Anaxilus]

You know, its one thing to bag on Razz and MP4Nation for poor CS.  It's another to take 1 or 2 Sflo2 failures and extrapolate that to ALL players being crap.  Many have probably had their Sflo2 for close to or more than a year w/o any hardware faults.  I've had issues w/ an Apple Nano shutting down on its own and failing to power on or reset.  When electrons meet cheap, watch out.  Mine has been operational for more than 6 months w/o fault.  Not that this is the case here, but I sometimes find hardware faults the result of user error.  Doing things they shouldn't do.   Put it this way, I have only hooked my Sflo2 to my PC once, that was for updating FW.  I always charge from a portable pack via USB and upload files to my card via a reader.  Just a few things you can do to protect your gear from the assumption that things are always made and specd the way they should be.  I also have an issue myself not related to the Sflo2s performance still unresolved after many months so I can sympathize.  I'm beginning to bump my posts on their thread as a small joke.

 

[thesingularity]

debitsohn : what exactly failed with your player?
Anybody else with failed S:Flo2 ... please feel free to share your experience, too.

 

[Danneq]

Quote:

i think the s:flo sounds wonderful but this is not worth it.  so anyone interested in buying a s:flo, take it for what its worth.

While I think that Chinese companies can make good and cheap audio related products (Fiio, Yuin), they are still in the learning stage and I would think that quality control is not as good as American, Korean or Japanese companies. While most of these companies now have their products manufactured in China, the quality (and sometimes build) control is usually much better. Until the quality/build control of Chinese companies gets better, I will not get anything costing more than $50, and it will take a while before I get a DAP made by a Chinese company.
 
So my advice it to go Korean or Japanese until Chinese products have become better. Cowon DAP:s are good, Sony is good as well. Kenwood's HDD DAP:s sound great as well as the old microdrive JVC/Victor DAP:s. Might be a small step down in SQ compared to the S:flo2, but it is nice to have a DAP where the battery dies before the player. I bought my Kenwood and JVC used. Both were released in 2005 and sound amazing. Besides the batteries lasting less than 10 hours, they still work great after over 5 years. A good thing is that the batteries are not soldered to the motherboard, and can be replaced (just find a battery of the correct size and put the battery connector plug on the wires and plug it in).
 
There are many great sounding older players released by companies with good QC.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

From time to time, Raz has pulled products that consistently failed such as the CRAPAD. I think the point is that MP4NATION mainly carries products by "those" companies. Many are no names. So how can warranties be fulfilled? I will say that MP4NATION has carried much crappier products than the s:flo 2. As I am going through the msg boards, the s:flo 2 does not have even the closest number of problem compared to something like the OS-43. Like I have said, 6 months. It would be a miracle if your s:flow lasts another 6 months.

 
Quote:

You know, its one thing to bag on Razz and MP4Nation for poor CS.  It's another to take 1 or 2 Sflo2 failures and extrapolate that to ALL players being crap.  Many have probably had their Sflo2 for close to or more than a year w/o any hardware faults.  I've had issues w/ an Apple Nano shutting down on its own and failing to power on or reset.  When electrons meet cheap, watch out.  Mine has been operational for more than 6 months w/o fault.  Not that this is the case here, but I sometimes find hardware faults the result of user error.  Doing things they shouldn't do.   Put it this way, I have only hooked my Sflo2 to my PC once, that was for updating FW.  I always charge from a portable pack via USB and upload files to my card via a reader.  Just a few things you can do to protect your gear from the assumption that things are always made and specd the way they should be.  I also have an issue myself not related to the Sflo2s performance still unresolved after many months so I can sympathize.  I'm beginning to bump my posts on their thread as a small joke.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

From time to time, Raz has pulled products that consistently failed such as the CRAPAD. I think the point is that MP4NATION mainly carries products by "those" companies. Many are no names. So how can warranties be fulfilled? I will say that MP4NATION has carried much crappier products than the s:flo 2. As I am going through the msg boards, the s:flo 2 does not have even the closest number of problem compared to something like the OS-43. Like I have said, 6 months. It would be a miracle if your s:flow lasts another 6 months.

Well my s:flo2 has run flawlessly for about 10 months now, so that's another two months to go (okay, maybe not totally flawless, as I need to reset it once after my PC crash). Hopefully not as bad as you predicted it will be, for my own sake. But I do agree on the fact that lots of Chinese electronic companies are still in the infant status compared to the big brand name, but that's the reality of that market. As a consumer, I do understand the risk of buying a cheaper Chinese products (vs brand name) and simply can't expect to pay much less and expect much more. They are cheap for a reason.

 

[shigzeo]

I've the Hippo Gumstick with me now, having sold the T51 to George. Both are as deviosly poor in ergonomics to the point of ignoring sound quality. Chinese manufacturers have been at the game for years - Hell, I've bought Chinese players since 2003 and they haven't improved since then. They advertise and sell on one thing and one thing only: Spec for the price. And what consumers get is sometimes good sounding stuff, but rarely ever properly functioning stuff.
 
Now, some users love the S:Flo - that is fine with me. It sounds good and if you ignore about 90% of what it is and that a CD player plays files better than it, you can enjoy it, but I did not come 5 years from the MD/CD platform to jump another 10 back. George, I hope you enjoy it. Everone else, here's wishing that Chinese companies start to look at the consumer rather than their own competitive pipe dreams when creating new products.

 

[debitsohn]

Quote:

Well my s:flo2 has run flawlessly for about 10 months now, so that's another two months to go (okay, maybe not totally flawless, as I need to reset it once after my PC crash). Hopefully not as bad as you predicted it will be, for my own sake. But I do agree on the fact that lots of Chinese electronic companies are still in the infant status compared to the big brand name, but that's the reality of that market. As a consumer, I do understand the risk of buying a cheaper Chinese products (vs brand name) and simply can't expect to pay much less and expect much more. They are cheap for a reason.

1. chinese electronic companies arent really in infant status compared to other companies.  chinese have been making our electronics for a very long time.  and as for infancy, im not talking about brand name, what about a company like schiit? brand new company with A+ CSand QC.  Do i own any of their products? no but i love how they do business becauese its the right way. 
2. their products should be cheaper for a number of reasons, parts, labor, etc.  but isuppose one they feel they can really get away with is spending less for QC and CS.
3.  if theyre gonna market their products around the world, they should realize that QC and CS are supremely important to people in more places than just the US.  that being said, as i have stated b4, as long as a big name reviewer says its great, ppl will buy it.  theyre so close (in my opinion) to making a player that could trump many of the other players if they just did a little CS and QC. but then again, captialism is a beast. theyll end up changing their company name and releasing another subpar product sooner rather htan later.
now im not saying everyone has issues with their player. im saying my player stopped playing. its like something came loose inside and if i squeezed the player, sound would come out, if i let go, it would stop. but given my experience and the fact that you admit, you get what you pay for, i feel we have a right to voice our opinion and warn people of potential issues they may run into.  im not bashing anyone. im telling it how it is.