[Andykong]

I put your little typo in bold. :wink_face:

The Sennheiser Orpheus was released in 1991 at a retail price of $12,900. Factoring in inflation, that's $22,446 in today's dollars.

After the first 300 units of the system (with the HE 90 headphones and HEV 90 amplifier), a few hundred more of the headphones were produced alone.

I would imagine that the new and improved version would be able to be made and sold at a lower price, though, since technology is at a higher level of advancement.

I'm not sure of the highest price an Orpheus system has actually sold for. It has been listed for sale for up to $35K, but again, that's because it's such a rare and desirable collector's item, and I don't think it ever sold at that price.

In any case...I really want all these headphones!  

Thanks for the typo pick, corrected.

As stated earlier, I do not have the actual 1994 (or 1991 if that matters) figure on-hand, I am only quoting the figure as suggested. While your calculation using inflation might suggest $22,446 as a good reference, there can be thousands of way to come out with a different figure, and Senn only need ONE formula to justify that, they can easily argue that inflation is irrelevant to their flagship product, or they think comparing the income of top 1% population over past 20 years will make more sense to them, who knows? I have no intention to defend the pricing strategy of Senn, I don't like that figure either, but lets wait and see if
(1) Senn really are selling Orpheus 2 at that price
(2) Whether the product will sell at their expected pace

If we end up with (2), who are we to say No? This is business after all. From what I see, the biggest problem is not whether Senn is asking for $20,000 or $50,000, the deal breaker is whether this is a shelf product or limited production, and at what volume. If they are making 300 units only, they are target at top 0.1% of the global headfi-ers only plus the big spenders who will mainly buy that for home display or collecting purpose, are you sure this is a outrageous figure to these target groups?

The original Orpheus was launched with the aim to show the world what Senn can do, so this is more a capability product rather then a practical product to start with. To me, this aim can be translated into another business objective: to show the investors how profitable Senn can be. I think the same statement will show up again when Orpheus 2 formally announced, and the alternative business objective will hold for the same reason.

Regarding your arguments that advancement and technology will drive cost down, sadly that only happens on some products such as consumer electronic or computer equipments. Whether Orpheus really belongs to these categories are debatable. Place take a look when exotic watch, automobile, fashion brands launch a new statement product of decade, do they really care about production efficiency due to technology and production advancement?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Thanks for the typo pick, corrected.

As stated earlier, I do not have the actual 1994 (or 1991 if that matters) figure on-hand, I am only quoting the figure as suggested. While your calculation using inflation might suggest $22,446 as a good reference, there can be thousands of way to come out with a different figure, and Senn only need ONE formula to justify that, they can easily argue that inflation is irrelevant to their flagship product, or they think comparing the income of top 1% population over past 20 years will make more sense to them, who knows? I have no intention to defend the pricing strategy of Senn, I don't like that figure either, but lets wait and see if
(1) Senn really are selling Orpheus 2 at that price
(2) Whether the product will sell at their expected pace

If we end up with (2), who are we to say No? This is business after all. From what I see, the biggest problem is not whether Senn is asking for $20,000 or $50,000, the deal breaker is whether this is a shelf product or limited production, and at what volume. If they are making 300 units only, they are target at top 0.1% of the global headfi-ers only plus the big spenders who will mainly buy that for home display or collecting purpose, are you sure this is a outrageous figure to these target groups?

The original Orpheus was launched with the aim to show the world what Senn can do, so this is more a capability product rather then a practical product to start with. To me, this aim can be translated into another business objective: to show the investors how profitable Senn can be. I think the same statement will show up again when Orpheus 2 formally announced, and the alternative business objective will hold for the same reason.

Regarding your arguments that advancement and technology will drive cost down, sadly that only happens on some products such as consumer electronic or computer equipments. Whether Orpheus really belongs to these categories are debatable. Place take a look when exotic watch, automobile, fashion brands launch a new statement product of decade, do they really care about production efficiency due to technology and production advancement?

 
All I can say is that if it's limited enough, I would want it no matter how much it costs, at least for something of this caliber.
 
I can imagine the conversation with my future wife. "Hey honey, I got these awesome new headphones. They're the best in the world!" "Oh, that's great! How much were they?" "..........$50,000. But don't worry -- they came with an amp too!"

 

[justin w.]

  After the first 300 units of the system (with the HE 90 headphones and HEV 90 amplifier), a few hundred more of the headphones were produced alone.
 

 
I don't think that's true...I think there are about 330 of the HE90 headphones total, including the 25 pairs sold through Meier Audio in 2005

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I don't think that's true...I think there are about 330 of the HE90 headphones total, including the 25 pairs sold through Meier Audio in 2005

 
Hiya Justin!

 
Can't wait to get your amps someday.
 
Whoops, I shouldn't have stated it so matter-of-factly. I guess what I heard about the lone headphones were mere rumors...then people repeating the rumors (saying things like there were 600 of them made and so on) distracted my research from the truth.

 

[Andykong]

All I can say is that if it's limited enough, I would want it no matter how much it costs, at least for something of this caliber.

I can imagine the conversation with my future wife. "Hey honey, I got these awesome new headphones. They're the best in the world!" "Oh, that's great! How much were they?" "..........$50,000. But don't worry -- they came with an amp too!" h34r:

Well, it so happened that I have almost exactly the same conversation with my wife when I bought my ESP950, it is near-new (i.e., second handed), best of a very famous brand, $500.00, .... and don't worry, they came with an amp too!

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well, it so happened that I have almost exactly the same conversation with my wife when I bought my ESP950, it is near-new (i.e., second handed), best of a very famous brand, $500.00, .... and don't worry, they came with an amp too!

 
That's a great entry-level (price-wise) electrostatic headphone! Not many other models that have been out for so long are still in production. I also like how the leather carrying case looks exactly like a camera bag. Did you really use that same wording? haha

 

[Show]

I'd fork out $5k for an Orpheus 2, assuming it sounds equal or better to the HE90. If they throw in a good amp (or only sell it as a bundle) you can double that figure.
 
However, with the flagship market being quite competitive these days (look at the LCD-3, HE-6, SR009 just to name a few of the highly popular heavy weights), I think Sennheiser will have to make it a limited run item to get it moving quickly at the $5k+ price tag. 
 
Inflation is tricky with tech items. If high end headphones weren't a niche, older headphones would be cheaper. Too much uncertainty.
 
All I can say is... about freaking time they stopped resting on the HD800 laurels and get onto something new.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I'd fork out $5k for an Orpheus 2, assuming it sounds equal or better to the HE90. If they throw in a good amp (or only sell it as a bundle) you can double that figure.
 
However, with the flagship market being quite competitive these days (look at the LCD-3, HE-6, SR009 just to name a few of the highly popular heavy weights), I think Sennheiser will have to make it a limited run item to get it moving quickly at the $5k+ price tag. 
 
Inflation is tricky with tech items. If high end headphones weren't a niche, older headphones would be cheaper. Too much uncertainty.
 
All I can say is... about freaking time they stopped resting on the HD800 laurels and get onto something new.

 
Forget the sound; for $50K, all I want is a headband that doesn't flake away into oblivion! (Kidding, of course.)
 
But really, personal preference of a sound signature is so crucial. No matter how good or expensive a headphone is, there are bound to be people who prefer something cheaper, more neutral and analytical, more colored and fun, and so on.
 
Amen! From what I understand, though, these two headphones have been planned for years. (I heard rumors about the Orpheus 2 for a long time.)

 

[Andykong]

That's a great entry-level (price-wise) electrostatic headphone! Not many other models that have been out for so long are still in production. I also like how the leather carrying case looks exactly like a camera bag. Did you really use that same wording? haha

I picked up the ESP950 in a recent trip to US (all the way from HK), it is a face to face deal and my wife help me to count the bills to the seller while I packing up the bits and pieces into the leather bag after a close examination. Knowing this is going to happen in advance, I have to "sell" the deal to her in advance, so I indeed use very similar wording when I tell her the deal (and planning for the US cash we need buy in advance), and the part with an amp bundled, yes, exactly the same wording as you put it, there isn't a better choice, right?

 

[Andykong]

I'd fork out $5k for an Orpheus 2, assuming it sounds equal or better to the HE90. If they throw in a good amp (or only sell it as a bundle) you can double that figure.

However, with the flagship market being quite competitive these days (look at the LCD-3, HE-6, SR009 just to name a few of the highly popular heavy weights), I think Sennheiser will have to make it a limited run item to get it moving quickly at the $5k+ price tag. 

Inflation is tricky with tech items. If high end headphones weren't a niche, older headphones would be cheaper. Too much uncertainty.

All I can say is... about freaking time they stopped resting on the HD800 laurels and get onto something new.

well, if ED5 can price at $5K, and when there are numerous headphone amp selling at ABOVE $5k already, why would Senn interested in this price segment when they plan for Orpheus 2?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I picked up the ESP950 in a recent trip to US (all the way from HK), it is a face to face deal and my wife help me to count the bills to the seller while I packing up the bits and pieces into the leather bag after a close examination. Knowing this is going to happen in advance, I have to "sell" the deal to her in advance, so I indeed use very similar wording when I tell her the deal (and planning for the US cash we need buy in advance), and the part with an amp bundled, yes, exactly the same wording as you put it, there isn't a better choice, right?

 
I can only hope I meet a woman who understands the appeal of high-end audio. I told a female friend I've known for over a decade about the SR-009 and she freaked out and called me insane just for being interested in them. (This type of thing shouldn't be an issue if I'm "financially free" at the time of purchase.) But jeez...people spend fortunes on luxury items with no practical use, and speakers are vastly more expensive, so even the most extravagant headphone systems aren't all that bad in comparison.
 
By the way, I like the photo in your avatar. I'm assuming you took it yourself.

 

[Andykong]

I can only hope I meet a woman who understands the appeal of high-end audio. I told a female friend I've known for over a decade about the SR-009 and she freaked out and called me insane just for being interested in them. (This type of thing shouldn't be an issue if I'm "financially free" at the time of purchase.) But jeez...people spend fortunes on luxury items with no practical use, and speakers are vastly more expensive, so even the most extravagant headphone systems aren't all that bad in comparison.

By the way, I like the photo in your avatar. I'm assuming you took it yourself.

Well, I pickup up an Alpha Dog in that trip too, pre-ordered and send to a personal friend in advance. Again she know the price as we had a good discussion on the topic of "premium headphone" after I demo the headphone to my friend two days with a Fiio X5. So the two headphone deal cost more then our return tickets and we had a very happy trip all alone.

Yes, these gear are not exotic when compare to 009, but they are consider what we are earning, but understanding is priceless, so I concur that I am a lucky man.

Yes, I took that photo myself, I didn't have time to update that as I replaced the Sony Z1000 with a T5p and bought two new toys recently, I can do a new composition in circle and that will fit into an avatar better.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well, I pickup up an Alpha Dog in that trip too, pre-ordered and send to a personal friend in advance. Again she know the price as we had a good discussion on the topic of "premium headphone" after I demo the headphone to my friend two days with a Fiio X5. So the two headphone deal cost more then our return tickets and we had a very happy trip all alone.

Yes, these gear are not exotic when compare to 009, but they are consider what we are earning, but understanding is priceless, so I concur that I am a lucky man.

Yes, I took that photo myself, I didn't have time to update that as I replaced the Sony Z1000 with a T5p and bought two new toys recently, I can do a new composition in circle and that will fit into an avatar better.

 
I know a handful of experienced audiophiles who like the sound of cheaper headphones more than expensive ones.
 
Yeah, as long as the dimensions are uniform (like 600x600), the image will fit without any white space.

 

[Show]

well, if ED5 can price at $5K, and when there are numerous headphone amp selling at ABOVE $5k already, why would Senn interested in this price segment when they plan for Orpheus 2?

Because they are not trying to make the most expensive headphone. Just because item X has been priced at $Xk, doesn't mean they want to make a $Yk headphone. I don't need the resources of Sennheiser to make a $50k headphone. 
 
At the end of the day, the most important part of any business model is profit. What price can they put on it to get the most return.

 

[eugenius]

The big question about the Orpheus2 is: Will it support DSD 512 or even more? I'm thinking for 50k it must come with it's own DSD rate.