[bigshot]

There's an awful lot of dodging and weaving going on in this thread.

I'll make a definitive statement. Fuses make no difference. The distance spanned by the element of the fuse is so short, and the connection so solid, it is totally transparent to the sound. All of the discussion of crimps in hoses and water pressure building up are fawlty analogies attempting to substitute magical thinking for facts.

There are things that improve sound... fuses ain't one of them.

See ya
Steve

 

[Spiug31]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I'll make a definitive statement. Fuses make no difference. The distance spanned by the element of the fuse is so short, and the connection so solid, it is totally transparent to the sound. All of the discussion of crimps in hoses and water pressure building up are fawlty analogies attempting to substitute magical thinking for facts. There are things that improve sound... fuses ain't one of them.

That's nice Steve, please tell which fuses with which kit didn't make a difference for you

 

[Acoustic Chef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiug31 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's nice Steve, please tell which fuses with which kit didn't make a difference for you

 

[IPodPJ]

Yes, please tell us Steve. I need to know which ones I should definitely avoid.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's an awful lot of dodging and weaving going on in this thread. I'll make a definitive statement. Fuses make no difference. The distance spanned by the element of the fuse is so short, and the connection so solid, it is totally transparent to the sound. All of the discussion of crimps in hoses and water pressure building up are fawlty analogies attempting to substitute magical thinking for facts. There are things that improve sound... fuses ain't one of them. See ya Steve

Show us some definitive, objective, scientific proof. You've made your conclusion, let's see your data (which you believe proves that "Fuses make no difference"), and we'll each make our own conclusions. It's called peer review, and is integral to valid science!

Show me some plots from a VNA running from DC to 100GHz!

 

[dvw]

Just out of curiosity, do anyone notice a difference between RoHS board and non-RoHS board.

Just in case if you don't know what that means. In the last two years, the PC board and component companies are phasing out lead in the electronic equipment. And that's the RoHS standard. So right now there is a mix of RoHS and non-RoHS equipment on the shelf.

Anyone notice any difference, I would think this would have even more impact than a fuse.

I apologize for going off topic. But since I can't hear a difference, I just wonder if anyone can.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotacowboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Show us some definitive, objective, scientific proof. You've made your conclusion, let's see your data

I'm afraid you've got it backwards, pal. You can't prove a negative. It's up to the people who claim that fuses make a difference to offer proof. But they don't. All we get is dodging the issue and flowery descriptions of subjective impressions. If you want to prove something that makes no logical or scientific sense, you'll have to do better than that.

Here is some plain old horse sense... For a normal speaker cable to have an audible impact, it needs to be very long. I'm not talking about a couple of feet, or even the length of your living room. I'm talking about the length of the block your house is built on... or more. Look at a fuse. It's barely longer than a hunk of solder on a circuit board. It can't make a difference, unless you resort to fairy tales about crimped pipes in your plumbing. A fuse is a fuse. It's like people who claim to hear a difference in iPod docks because the 1/8 inch cable that leads from the dock connector to the line out is solid silver. Yeah... pull the other one. And don't even get me started on power cords and power fuses.

It isn't hard to see who's talking through their hat around here. Sales pitch is obvious. Too many people hear through their wallets. There are MUCH more important things in audio reproduction than fuses. But people don't want to think about those things, because they take work and analytical thinking, not just a credit card. Snake oil salesmen don't sell sound- they sell peace of mind. "Buy my product and you don't need to worry or think too hard."

See ya
Steve

 

[JaZZ]

In advance: I don't have to contribute anything (own experience, opinion, ideology) to the «fuse» topic. I just feel provoked by Bigshot's die-hard belief to be in possession of the fundamental audio truths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif It isn't hard to see who's talking through their hat around here. Sales pitch is obvious. Too many people hear through their wallets. There are MUCH more important things in audio reproduction than fuses. But people don't want to think about those things, because they take work and analytical thinking, not just a credit card. Snake oil salesmen don't sell sound- they sell peace of mind. "Buy my product and you don't need to worry or think too hard."

Steve, you make yourself look like haunted by paranoia: You're convinced that people who occupy themselves with certain unexplained audio phenomena must be sales-pitch victims (BTW, you're not alone). Let me tell you that I don't feel like this at all, and in terms of snake oil the snake-oil dealers haven't got much of my money. I'm simply fascinated by the subtleties in music reproduction and always form my own opinion by own experience. Honestly: I don't even watch TV commercials

.

How about trying a different perspective? Which doesn't necessarily imply changing your mind about the subject if your belief dictates your approach to certain phenomena. Yes: keep in mind that your often-cited horse sense can in fact be used for other things than a neutral approach -- and in reality it is often used to support blindness and lack of imagination. (Your block-length speaker cable made me smile.

)

I'm not planning to care about fuses -- because they just don't seem promising enough in terms of decisive sonic impact (I don't even hear a clear impact from power conditioners and power cords in my setup...). But in contrast to you I don't exclude the possibility that they may have a certain (probably minor) sonic impact to other people and in other setups. Physics don't dictate such an impossibility. Also, in a forum discussion among laymen nobody owes proof for nothing. And nobody knows the universal truth.
.

 

[immtbiker]

I can see how a poorly built fuse can degrade the system. After all, everything in it's path passes through it. I think that "audiophile grade" fuses, like the one's reviewed in Stereophile in the summer last year, can help to keep things going the way they were going and not stand in anything's way.
A top shelf fuse won't improve your component (it's not a magical black box), it just won't hurt it like a dime store fuse can.

Steve, your comments, especially if you have not taken the time to evaluate the theory yourself, and post the results, are usually the beginning of the end of a decent thread.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here is some plain old horse sense... For a normal speaker cable to have an audible impact, it needs to be very long. I'm not talking about a couple of feet, or even the length of your living room. I'm talking about the length of the block your house is built on... or more.

Not true. Completely discards the proven testing of time alignment.

 

[QQQ]

Quote:

I can see how a poorly built fuse can degrade the system.

It's either contact or no. No in between.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's either contact or no. No in between.

So you're saying, that with a fuse or a cable/wire, if there are a lot of impurities in the wire, it doesn't have any chance to modify (or degrade) the signal.

None whatsoever, huh? It's either black or white with no shades of gray in between.

I suppose that's why critically calibrated high end medical equipment use ceramic holders rather than glass. Signal interference isn't possible at all. They figure, what the heck, let's waste more money on a machine that saves lives just for the fun of it"???

Gee, I guess my engineering training at Abbott Labs was just for kicks and you must be right QQQ. Perhaps you should be a EE certified trainer.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can see how a poorly built fuse can degrade the system. After all, everything in it's path passes through it. I think that "audiophile grade" fuses, like the one's reviewed in Stereophile in the summer last year, can help to keep things going the way they were going and not stand in anything's way. A top shelf fuse won't improve your component (it's not a magical black box), it just won't hurt it like a dime store fuse can.

I do not think than any manufacturer, of the ones we know, will use defective fuses, or cheap fuses, for rare that it seems, they do cost pennies, but that is a cheap part, they all order the parts from respectable electronic stores, and fuses have to be tested and rated. IMO an audiophile fuse could be better done, but it will do the same and the function of a fuse is not to sound, is to let the current flow to a certain limit, and from that point on, it blows away....period...the audiophile fuse will do exactly the same at certain level is has to blow, otherwise is not a fuse is a danger!!!!

 

[dvw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you're saying, that with a fuse or a cable/wire, if there are a lot of impurities in the wire, it doesn't have any chance to modify (or degrade) the signal. None whatsoever, huh? It's either black or white with no shades of gray in between. I suppose that's why critically calibrated high end medical equipment use ceramic holders rather than glass. Signal interference isn't possible at all. They figure, what the heck, let's waste more money on a machine that saves lives just for the fun of it"??? Gee, I guess my engineering training at Abbott Labs was just for kicks and you must be right QQQ. Perhaps you should be a EE certified trainer.

Are you saying Abott lab's instrument use high end audiophile fuse? That's interesting. I need to check that out. When did they start doing that? I need to make sure I got the right one.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm afraid you've got it backwards, pal. You can't prove a negative. It's up to the people who claim that fuses make a difference to offer proof. But they don't. All we get is dodging the issue and flowery descriptions of subjective impressions. If you want to prove something that makes no logical or scientific sense, you'll have to do better than that.

I don't know if fuses make a difference. I'm asking you to prove that they don't to verify your conclusion.

I'm not asking you to 'prove a negative'. I'm asking you to provide the results of any of your own research surrounding the topic at hand.

If you don't have any scientifically valid and objective data that may suggest that fuses have absolutely no affect on an audio signal, then you, sir, have little business spouting your tired banter based on some misguided, misinformed, and closed-minded understanding of science, physics, and the natural phenomena surrounding and including us. You certainly sound like a "salesman" to me.