[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah I use the word harsh too often. The JAN Phillips were "bright" in the upper midrange especially with vocals, not really harsh. The 8610s are harsh as the midrange is too unnecessarily sharp and edgy to the point that it is unnatural. It presented as almost a scratchy edge to the notes. I wouldn't describe them as clinical as I find the opa627/637 to be more accurate and just as detailed if not more so, but thats jmo.

Hi Cipher

The more I read what you write the more I think the differences we are hearing are mostly due to volume. Those sharp and edgy sounds you describe at the volume levels you use, become quite welcome at the levels I listen at providing a sort of a built in Fletcher-Munson.

I am able to reproduce some of what you are saying by driving the 8610s up past 9 or 10:00, but at the 7:00 level I was listening last night, the additional sparkle of the 8610s over the 637/627s plays a deciding role.

Conversely, the OPAs, which come into their own around 9:00 have me looking for a treble boost at 7:00 (with both my 650s and '03 880s).

Maybe you just have better hearing than I do.

USG

 

[scootermafia]

The differences probably aren't that huge especially at lower volume, and I just liked the OPAs because they were expensive. I don't know. At high volume they were always a bit strident.

 

[ciphercomplete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Cipher The more I read what you write the more I think the differences we are hearing are mostly due to volume. Those sharp and edgy sounds you describe at the volume levels you use, become quite welcome at the levels I listen at providing a sort of a built in Fletcher-Munson. I am able to reproduce some of what you are saying by driving the 8610s up past 9 or 10:00, but at the 7:00 level I was listening last night, the additional sparkle of the 8610s over the 637/627s plays a deciding role. Conversely, the OPAs, which come into their own around 9:00 have me looking for a treble boost at 7:00 (with both my 650s and '03 880s). Maybe you just have better hearing than I do. USG

No. I find them harsh at ANY volume. This is a taste issue nothing more.

 

[deaconblues]

The M^3 and S11 have moved out of their cardboard box and into more decent living conditions

All I need now is a proper volume knob with the right proportions for my enclosures. The M^3 is currently borrowing my pimeta's volume knob, which looks a little out of place. Any suggestions?

This amp really exerts its authority over the sennheisers. It manages to push every detail through the "veil". I had recently purchased a Grado SR-325i to complement my Senns. But now that I have this amp, I find myself not needing any other set of headphones to compensate for the veil.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif The differences probably aren't that huge especially at lower volume, and I just liked the OPAs because they were expensive. I don't know. At high volume they were always a bit strident.

As good a reason as any............

In fact, after reading your post, I have not reinstalled the 8610s....

Expensive is moar better.

Which brings me to the next point.

At the NY meet yesterday SiBurning and I spent a lot of time comparing his Benchmark to my Stello. We compared them on optical, coaxial, and USB with the Blue Circle Thingee as a transport. We used my GS-1 amp because it has two headphone jacks and two imputs, so A-B comparisons were easy to do and we could both listen at the same time.

The big surprise was that the two DACs sounded virtually the same. I think we both agreed that the coax was ever so slightly tighter than the optical.

He was using boutique cables and I was using Dayton cables. We switched the cables to see if that made any difference. We couldn't tell the difference. Cables made no difference.

Bottom line: A Benchmark sounds like a Stello....

There may be nuance differences but we decided to leave that for some extended listening at a mini meet.

This was completely unexpected for me, who thought the Stello was a dark sounding DAC with a lot of bass compared to my Constantine+.

So, if you can hear the difference between 8610s and 637/627s, upgrade your DAC.... you'll be in for a big surprise if you hook up a Benchmark or Stello to your M^3.

There are, of course, many other good DACs out there, but haven't spent enough time with any of them to be able to make a recommendation.... I am, however, currently looking for a Northwood to audition.

As an aside, we both agreed that the 192 upsampling on the Stello decreased the bass, brought the vocals forward and narrowed the sound stage, so we didn't use it.


USG

 

[mbd2884]

Hey Deacon where did you get the kit to make your M3 and Sigma 11?

Thanks

 

[deaconblues]

I didn't buy a kit. I bought whatever parts I could from AMB's audio shop, the transformer and AD8610 opamps from digikey, browndog adapters from cimmaron technology, and everything else from mouser. The ordering process was more of a pain than actually putting the boards together, heh heh. I also hit a snag when I accidentally ordered 100kohm resistors from mouser instead of 100ohm.

edit: Oh yeah, and I got the enclosures off an ebay seller for $21 shipped each. I decided against mounting the volume pot on the board, but otherwise, these cases are an excellent fit for the M^3. There's plenty of headroom above my M^3's 1.5" heatsinks. I think I could have even used 2" heatsinks in there.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

 

[ciphercomplete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Conversely, the OPAs, which come into their own around 9:00 have me looking for a treble boost at 7:00 (with both my 650s and '03 880s). Maybe you just have better hearing than I do. USG

I'm surprised I missed this. I'm not surprised you don't hear what I'm hearing. The HD650 is a nice match with the 8610 in my experience and the DT880 has a compressed midrange imo which could be masking the differences. These opamps have significant tonal differences on certain frequencies in the midrange.

Put on a pair of midrange bloomers like the AKGs or AD2000 and you will hear the differences no matter how expensive your DAC is.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm surprised I missed this. I'm not surprised you don't hear what I'm hearing. The HD650 is a nice match with the 8610 in my experience and the DT880 has a compressed midrange imo which could be masking the differences. These opamps have significant tonal differences on certain frequencies in the midrange. Put on a pair of midrange bloomers like the AKGs or AD2000 and you will hear the differences no matter how expensive your DAC is.

Well, at least we finally agree that the 8610s sound better than the 637/627s with the 650s.

I don't agree with you that '03 880s have a compressed midrange and I probably use them more than my 650s and 701s combined.... I find the 880s play in a bigger space than the 650s and can be worn comfortably for longer periods of time. I didn't care for the '05 880s and passed them along to a family member, but I really like the '03 880s for low level listening while working on the computer.... which btw is where I do 90% of my listening.

Another interesting factoid is that (IMHO) the Woo3 has the same sonic signature as an M^3 with 8610s with the Woo edging out the M^3 with more air and space and a blacker background.

Regarding DACs: All I have to say is don't underestimate the importantance of the DAC.

Speaking of DACs, your Monarchy has 2 separate DACs and a line stage head amp in it. Given that you generally get what you pay for, how do those individual DACs compare with single DACs like my Stello or SiBurning's Benchmark or a Mhdt Paradisea ?

Besides, after listening to some of the better rigs at the NY meet yesterday, I have a bad case of The Low Fi Blues. I feel like we're like a couple of guys debating which chip to put in a cmoy.

USG

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, if you can hear the difference between 8610s and 637/627s, upgrade your DAC.... you'll be in for a big surprise if you hook up a Benchmark or Stello to your M^3.

Uhm.. I think I have a pretty nice DAC, I can tell the difference between those opamps and I'm not impressed by either DAC you mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Deacon where did you get the kit to make your M3 and Sigma 11?

You can go with a kit form Jeff @ GlassJarAudio, drop him a line. Honest though, pick your own damn parts and built it how you want, only go for a "kit" if you want what's in it, not because you're lazy.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff's kits, I order from him regularly, but that's because I know what I'm getting and under 99% circumstances substitute certain parts to get what I would want to get. He's nice to allow that usually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, at least we finally agree that the 8610s sound better than the 637/627s with the 650s.

There are more than 2 opamp choices.

I usually stay away from AD8610, unless I'm going for really nice battery life on a portable amp. I really like the AD825 personally.

Yeah, OPA627/OPA637 is a "classic" opamp combination and it sounds nice and I like it, but not always. Neither is the "be all, end all" in terms of opamps.

I do listen to OPA627/OPA637 in my M3 now, but opamps never last long in my setups.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uhm.. I think I have a pretty nice DAC, I can tell the difference between those opamps and I'm not impressed by either DAC you mention.

I'm not impressed with those DACs either, anymore... That plus my amps is why I have The Low Fi Blues

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are more than 2 opamp choices. I usually stay away from AD8610, unless I'm going for really nice battery life on a portable amp. I really like the AD825 personally.

I'm going to try that one next... Grawk's recommendation too... or did he recommend the 845??? I don't remember...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, OPA627/OPA637 is a "classic" opamp combination and it sounds nice and I like it, but not always. Neither is the "be all, end all" in terms of opamps. I do listen to OPA627/OPA637 in my M3 now, but opamps never last long in my setups.

I can't agree with you more. I had the 637/627 in until tonight, sounds nice but generally too laid back for me, then the 8065 followed by the 8610.... then the Woo3..... talking about unimpressive DACs, I thought my Constantine was a pretty nice DAC at one time.

So which chip do you like the best, or perhaps, use the most is the better way to phrase it?

USG

Edit: Which Northstar do you have? Mk 1 or 2?

The DAC recommendation was for Scooter.... I think he's limited by his DAC.... but what do I know??

 

[Vandal]

A lovely looking set of enclosures. For a while the orange lights had me thinking rockhopper. I love the power switch and the chassis is just sweet.

 

[ciphercomplete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speaking of DACs, your Monarchy has 2 separate DACs and a line stage head amp in it. Given that you generally get what you pay for, how do those individual DACs compare with single DACs like my Stello or SiBurning's Benchmark or a Mhdt Paradisea ?

Seriously? Have you read reviews for it? Have you heard it? I researched all those DACs you mentioned before stretching my budget for the NM24. The Paradisea is not in the same class and I'd put both the solid state and tube sections of this DAC up against the Stello and the Benchmark any day. I've already compared to a couple of entry/mid-level ($2500+) CD players in 2-channel speaker setups: edge to the NM24 imo. To each his own though, its sounds like you are a solid state guy anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, at least we finally agree that the 8610s sound better than the 637/627s with the 650s.

No we don't really agree. The HD650 makes the 8610s tolerable, not awesome. Thats jmo though.

 

[scootermafia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deaconblues /img/forum/go_quote.gif The M^3 and S11 have moved out of their cardboard box and into more decent living conditions All I need now is a proper volume knob with the right proportions for my enclosures. The M^3 is currently borrowing my pimeta's volume knob, which looks a little out of place. Any suggestions? This amp really exerts its authority over the sennheisers. It manages to push every detail through the "veil". I had recently purchased a Grado SR-325i to complement my Senns. But now that I have this amp, I find myself not needing any other set of headphones to compensate for the veil.

By a miracle, I found tubesandmore.com which had

01 - More Info for item P-K313

Go to knobs then miscellaneous to find it.

I'm ordering an extra one since I scratched mine doing mods - it was the one that came with my Rockhopper M3. It's a very gorgeous black solid billet aluminum knob with set screw, no plastic...made by Sato in Japan.

 

[scootermafia]

I know my DAC isn't the best, but my budget was limited. As I said, an audio-GD ref 3 or a Paradisea, something in the $800 range, would be a big upgrade, but there's no cash for that as of now.

The Moodlab Concept is tiny, but it's a passive DAC with no oversampling/upsampling and I think it does a very clean job without coloring the signal. I'm extremely happy with it pairing my my 650s and m3.