[ZappaMan]

or that what he calls a change at -200dB ends up creating much louder changes at the output signal, and that's why it sounds audibly different.

That’s my understanding of what he said, this should be a testable hypothesis.

There is no need for all the expletives.
Keep your scientist hat on, remain open minded, that’s how scientific progress happens.
And chill out, just a bit, it’s Sunday, keep all that fire in your belly for Monday.

If people were to say the perception of depth was greater with a Dave amp, would that sway you just a little, that his discovery, could be a factor in that improved depth ?

Have you listened to Dave?

 

[RRod]

It IS testable. Feel free to find a -200dBFS signal that when added to a certain track causes audible artifacts to occur. The person in question is perfectly within his right to give such examples as well.

 

[Whazzzup]

I dunno I see confirmation bias all the time and audio ear perception varies it seems. I found it shocking how some felt ch2 was night and day better than ch1...then shocking to hear folks say tt was a lateral on ch1. So there seems to be more than taps and stuff going on here like analogue components, psu, milled block design etc...regardless the chord thread has always had cheerleaders, nothing wrong in that, but lately it’s gotten a bit repetitive and thick. Just an observation.
Again looking at 3 heavies that pursued different architecture, we have yet to find a winner, which means someone is playing with us..

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Just because somebody makes something, that doesn’t mean he gets free reign to say whatever he wants...particularly when that stuff is said in an effort to sell whatever it is he is making.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

All I see is some dodgy web page with some unscientific statements about the alleged effects on the human body of sound waves.

Before rob proves he can hear -200db, I think you should prove +200db causes death, as you’re setting up the challenge, it’s only right you go first.

If you’re right, and it does cause your death, I’ll ask Rob to look out for you in heaven and he can take you through his methodology.

Why? Are we trying to pump some product by claiming +200dbs is deadly?

 

[SilverEars]

I dunno I see confirmation bias all the time and audio ear perception varies it seems. I found it shocking how some felt ch2 was night and day better than ch1...then shocking to hear folks say tt was a lateral on ch1. So there seems to be more than taps and stuff going on here like analogue components, psu, milled block design etc...regardless the chord thread has always had cheerleaders, nothing wrong in that, but lately it’s gotten a bit repetitive and thick. Just an observation.
Again looking at 3 heavies that pursued different architecture, we have yet to find a winner, which means someone is playing with us..

That's why I hate the thread and turns me off even more, the cheerleaders. I really don't understand why you'd be so dedicated to an object? It just looks like shill since same people are doing it. It's like a religion, people don't question stuff and eats up whatever Rob states. That's just ignorance. I just don't understand some people on Headfi, like there is no common sense.

I want a thread to challenge his products, his rediculous over pricing. Come on, 10k for DAVE?!

 

[gregorio]

[1] That’s my understanding of what he said, this should be a testable hypothesis.
[2] Keep your scientist hat on, remain open minded, that’s how scientific progress happens.
[3] If people were to say the perception of depth was greater with a Dave amp, would that sway you just a little, that his discovery, could be a factor in that improved depth ?
[4] Have you listened to Dave?

1. How is it testable? Again, Watts is talking about differences/distortion which equate to SPL differences at the sub-atomic level. Do you really think there are any speakers/HPs with anywhere even vaguely near that kind of resolution?

2. What scientific progress has been made by keeping an open mind that unicorns, faeries or flying pigs exist? What about keeping an open mind that the Earth is flat?

3. What people?, shills, audiophiles, those actually trying to sell the Dave? And, what "discovery", that some of the laws of physics and some of the fundamental theories upon which the modern world relies are wrong? Show me the list of Rob Watts' Nobel prizes for such astonishing discoveries and I would be swayed!

4. Yes.

G

 

[ZappaMan]

1. How is it testable? Again, Watts is talking about differences/distortion which equate to SPL differences at the sub-atomic level. Do you really think there are any speakers/HPs with anywhere even vaguely near that kind of resolution?

2. What scientific progress has been made by keeping an open mind that unicorns, faeries or flying pigs exist? What about keeping an open mind that the Earth is flat?

3. What people?, shills, audiophiles, those actually trying to sell the Dave? And, what "discovery", that some of the laws of physics and some of the fundamental theories upon which the modern world relies are wrong? Show me the list of Rob Watts' Nobel prizes for such astonishing discoveries and I would be swayed!

4. Yes.

G

Why do you sign your post with your initials?

Are you aware the forum software shows your name above your post?

But, you need to calm down and keep an open mind. You think you understand what rob was saying, but I don’t think you do.

Rather than get over excited posting under your ‘g’ persona, why not reach out to rob and ask him? Isn’t that the scientific way?

 

[Steve999]

ZappaMan, G knows what he's saying. He gets a little expressive at times but if you read what he is actually saying and take on some concerted learning for yourself I think you will find he is right. People could break this to you more gently, that would be my preference for someone in your shoes, who wanders in here unsuspecting as to what is to come from several frightfully clever and colorful individuals, but he is right.

Why do you sign your post with your initials?

Are you aware the forum software shows your name above your post?

But, you need to calm down and keep an open mind. You think you understand what rob was saying, but I don’t think you do.

Rather than get over excited posting under your ‘g’ persona, why not reach out to rob and ask him? Isn’t that the scientific way?

 

[ZappaMan]

ZappaMan, G knows what he's saying. He gets a little expressive at times but if you read what he is actually saying and take on some concerted learning for yourself I think you will find he is right. People could break this to you more gently, that would be my preference for someone in your shoes, who wanders in here unsuspecting as to what is to come from several frightfully clever and colorful individuals, but he is right.

Thanks for the warning

 

[Whitigir]

I want a thread to challenge his products, his rediculous over pricing. Come on, 10k for DAVE?!

I challenge his DAVE to put up with my cheaper AudioGD R2R7. However, his pricing has put it out of my reach (in a sense that it is not worth buying to just Test and challenge for a throughout review).

I don’t understand how a SPS can sound so good LOL! And I seriously want to know. I am very open minded and always love to learn more for my own personal experiences

 

[bigshot]

That’s my understanding of what he said, this should be a testable hypothesis.

Totally correct. Then if his change at -200dB is creating some sort of audible distortion artifact in the sound, that should be measurable as distortion above -50 or -40dB or so. On a spec sheet or distortion measurement that would be in the neighborhood of .5%. Have you ever heard of a DAC with distortion ratings that high? I haven't.

Feel free to direct me to the right path if I'm going down the wrong one here.

Why do you sign your post with your initials?

He does that so if someone quotes him unclearly, we still know who said it. It happens. There are people who don't know how quoting works.

I challenge his DAVE to put up with my cheaper AudioGD R2R7. However, his pricing has put it out of my reach (in a sense that it is not worth buying to just Test and challenge for a throughout review).

If he was talking about something that made any sense at all, I might take that attitude too. But when he talks about sub atomic particles and sound so quiet that an ant's breathing is louder, he can price it at $9.99 with a half off coupon and I still won't touch it with a ten foot pole!

 

[Whitigir]

Does anyone ever thought of that DAC can be using other DSP and EQ that is implemented on the hardware level to color up the sound too ? This is a more realistic scenario than hearing at -200Db....LOL!

 

[bigshot]

Does anyone ever thought of that DAC can be using other DSP and EQ that is implemented on the hardware level to color up the sound too ? This is a more realistic scenario than hearing at -200Db....LOL!

If that was the case, it would clearly show up in measurements too. Look at what he is saying is affected... the timbre of the instruments. That is a red flag for planting expectation bias. Snake oil is always pointing to "the sound around the sound" being the thing their product improves... harmonics up above the threshold of human hearing, micro detail, stuff down by the noise floor... all that is stuff that makes a difference as much as the core frequencies at hefty amplitude that we are actually hearing. They push this stuff because it implants an idea described as "veils" or "truthful timbre" to direct our expectation bias to shift our perceptions.

I would bet his $10k DAC sounds just like the one in my $40 Walmart DVD player. He's just using persuasive words to make us think it sounds better.

 

[ZappaMan]

I would bet his $10k DAC sounds just like the one in my $40 Walmart DVD player. He's just using persuasive words to make us think it sounds better.

I do respect your posts here bigshot, theres always more to learn, and good to be on the lookout for bs, but i think you've perhaps gone too far with that one.