[simorag]

Is it safe to assume the aic10 shouldn't be left on overnight or 24/7 due to tubes or is there some magic in there to help the tubes life?

I usually leave low power electronics on 24/7, as it is normally beneficial both for sound and reliability.

ECC82 tubes should have a life in the range of 10-20k hours (the G73-R allegedly was designed for 40000h lifespan target). Therefore tube life is a relatively low concern.

Being the AIC-10 a class A design, it injects some heat in the room and should consume something around 35-50W when not used, so a decent amount of energy is wasted by keeping it always on.

Furthermore, I have noticed that the AIC-10 takes only a few minutes to sound good, and about half an hour to reach its best sonic performances.

On the the other hand, I like the idea of limiting the number of power / thermal cycles of my gear, so with the AIC-10 I keep it on whenever I foresee to listen to it within the next day.

 

[Axel]

I don’t recommend leaving class A amps on 24/7.

 

[moosemp]

I usually leave low power electronics on 24/7, as it is normally beneficial both for sound and reliability.

ECC82 tubes should have a life in the range of 10-20k hours (the G73-R allegedly was designed for 40000h lifespan target). Therefore tube life is a relatively low concern.

Being the AIC-10 a class A design, it injects some heat in the room and should consume something around 35-50W when not used, so a decent amount of energy is wasted by keeping it always on.

Furthermore, I have noticed that the AIC-10 takes only a few minutes to sound good, and about half an hour to reach its best sonic performances.

On the the other hand, I like the idea of limiting the number of power / thermal cycles of my gear, so with the AIC-10 I keep it on whenever I foresee to listen to it within the next day.

Today i came back to RIVIERA after some 2 months spent with ENVY. this morning I switched power on with rear panel switch and after few hours I started power on with front switch. It took about one hour for amp to warm up to its full potential. It amazes me as the very first time. My cd player ML 512 is on 24/7 ONLY this way it performs on max quality level. I switch RIVIERA off with front button when I finish session Every time. Besides it is very warm weather in Poland now, I do not want to and my cent to global warming

 

[moosemp]

For bass enthusiasts- I USE CARDAS CLEAR POWER for RIVIERA AND DAVE.Result is fantastic in my opinion. Main point is that with this cable bass not ONLY goes very low with full authority but also integrates perfectly with other parts of frequency range. So I would not let this amp go just because some other amp has deeper bass, to choice cable- power and interconnect may be better and certainly cheaper option

 

[hifixman]

For bass enthusiasts- I USE CARDAS CLEAR POWER for RIVIERA AND DAVE.Result is fantastic in my opinion. Main point is that with this cable bass not ONLY goes very low with full authority but also integrates perfectly with other parts of frequency range. So I would not let this amp go just because some other amp has deeper bass, to choice cable- power and interconnect may be better and certainly cheaper option

I just ordered woo Audio's new Woo23 Luna which has the best bass with Sus through all the amps I have tried. It will be used as a preamp to pair with AFC, which will be my last resort honestly.

With the nickname as the mini wa33 elite, Woo W23 sounds as a far cry away from Wa33 elite which has been deemed as bass lacking by my ears and many owners I know. The first time I tried Woo W23 Luna prototype, I was using HD800s, which is too warm and dark sounding and I wasn't impressed at all. The second time I demoed Woo W23 in a quite room for long session, I used Susvara which I had no expectations at all due to the previous experience, but surprisingly I was blown away and I can't never go back ever since. Even I feel I have found the best synergy matching Riviera to source for years and tons of experiments, I miss that top notch quality of deep extension from Luna everytime I turn on Rivera. That particular combination of Sus with Wa23 Luna makes Abyss TC redundant ( Or as a abyss TC without sonic nor orgnomic flaws). It is really like you never know what you are missing till you hear it. Particularly, that bass is not like artificially exaggerated bass you might get in many unbalanced bass heavy cables or bass exaggerated dacs, but smash you, hit you, and blow you away with no sweat in an organic way.

Woo 3SE and Woo W23 are the amps that can be crowned for bass region in Electrostatic and non electrostatic amplifiers. Btw, I'm familiar with Cardas Clear and I honestly wouldn't rate it as bass king, but it is definitely clear to my ears

Don't get me wrong, Rivera is amazing as definitely one of the best non Electrostatic headphone amps. But as you know, there is no perfection. The only negative feedback I have got from Riviera owners is the narcotic low extension, which takes me a while to understand and realize. Even Electrostatic systems such as HE-1 or T1 with Mullard tubes could have way better low extensions. While I got the soul shaking bass from T2 with Mullard Tubes with X9000 which is really HE-1 level, I do find plannar sounds more engaging with more musicality and body for that level of rumbles and slams, due to the construction of Plannar drivers which is supposed to be more dynamic innately than Electrostatic drivers, technically speaking.

 

[moosemp]

That is really amp I must try since your opinion is valuable for me. Unfortunately it may be difficult in Poland-distributors do not have more advanced WOO amps but I HAVE TO ASK. The other factor is price- it will certainly be in rangę of 12-13k in €. Actual currency exchange rate is very bad too. Inflation in my country is about 15,5% etc.. so it is not good time for purchases but I just need to hear The amp and make decision for future.
The king of bass imho is CARDAS clear beyond which I use with JBL Everest speakers, but that’s different story.
EVEREST is king of bass too

 

[hifixman]

That is really amp I must try since your opinion is valuable for me. Unfortunately it may be difficult in Poland-distributors do not have more advanced WOO amps but I HAVE TO ASK. The other factor is price- it will certainly be in rangę of 12-13k in €. Actual currency exchange rate is very bad too. Inflation in my country is about 15,5% etc.. so it is not good time for purchases but I just need to hear The amp and make decision for future.
The king of bass imho is CARDAS clear beyond which I use with JBL Everest speakers, but that’s different story.
EVEREST is king of bass too

Riviera is good with all cans and great with most cans, yet Luna is great with Sus especially for bass. Also 3se is good for bright Electrostatic Headphons as 009s and ShangriLa SR but NOT X8000.

It is just for me I don't collect a lot of cans, so I chase the best pairing amp and source for each headphone that I do keep.

Btw my French buddy also spent 15K Euros for his Viva 845 which retails at 13500 USD in US. Not sure about the price gap nowadays in EU, as everything became pricier there.

 

[moosemp]

Riviera is good with all cans and great with most cans, yet Luna is great with Sus especially for bass. Also 3se is good for bright Electrostatic Headphons as 009s and ShangriLa SR but NOT X8000.

It is just for me I don't collect a lot of cans, so I chase the best pairing amp and source for each headphone that I do keep.

Btw my French buddy also spent 15K Euros for his Viva 845 which retails at 13500 USD in US. Not sure about the price gap nowadays in EU, as everything became pricier there.

I do not have SUSVARA and realny need to give it a listen at home. It is on the market for quiet a long time. Maybe successor will come soon? By now I listen mainly with Abyss and ZMF, also nice choice for relaxed session.
I tried my 1266TC with UNISON RESEARCH Absolute 845, cans did not blow out, 40W pure class A from speakers terminal. But it was a brief epizode, logger session will follow.
IT is fantastic amp for loudspeakers, I guess I will bring it to our new płące soon (90kg), so I do not consider VIVA at The moment
prices are crazy now.

 

[Axel]

The Luna is 2a3 based, which in class A operation can max out to 4W.
From my experience with various amplifiers and the Susvara, that would be insufficient to drive them properly.
I’ve tried driving the Susvaras with various 300B SET amps (including the ENVY, Yamamoto and other), neither of them had enough drive to not distort on high SPLs on complex classical music passages.
Only 15W+ amps, such as el84 push-pull based tube amps (Shindo was wonderful) and solid state managed to drive it properly.

 

[hifixman]

The Luna is 2a3 based, which in class A operation can max out to 4W.
From my experience with various amplifiers and the Susvara, that would be insufficient to drive them properly.
I’ve tried driving the Susvaras with various 300B SET amps (including the ENVY, Yamamoto and other), neither of them had enough drive to not distort on high SPLs on complex classical music passages.
Only 15W+ amps, such as el84 push-pull based tube amps (Shindo was wonderful) and solid state managed to drive it properly.

It can drive susvara, and sufficient loud at 1am (even wa22 could drive susvara). it is not just about the number of wattage Even 1W Ifi BL could drive sus with reference 16 cable stunningly.

Also for the reason why a 15w output tube Viva amp fail to drive susvara is because the factory purposely adjusted the transformer to make it suitable for more headphones. The manufacturer could adjust it to drive sus with unrestricted 15W power which according to them could damage some sensitive headphones.

 

[Axel]

I think our definition of “drive” is different. Which is fine.
No amp with less than 12-15W was able to handle the SPL and complex/dynamic music I mostly listen to.
BTW, most rock/pop/jazz/blues/electronic music sound wonderful with the Viva. If that was my main listening preferences, I would have never researched beyond it.

 

[hifixman]

I think our definition of “drive” is different. Which is fine.
No amp with less than 12-15W was able to handle the SPL and complex/dynamic music I mostly listen to.
BTW, most rock/pop/jazz/blues/electronic music sound wonderful with the Viva. If that was my main listening preferences, I would have never researched beyond it.

Just secured a Sony R10, I guess I will keep RIVIERA for my R10. A match made in heaven!!!!

 

[eskamobob1]

The Luna is 2a3 based, which in class A operation can max out to 4W.
From my experience with various amplifiers and the Susvara, that would be insufficient to drive them properly.
I’ve tried driving the Susvaras with various 300B SET amps (including the ENVY, Yamamoto and other), neither of them had enough drive to not distort on high SPLs on complex classical music passages.
Only 15W+ amps, such as el84 push-pull based tube amps (Shindo was wonderful) and solid state managed to drive it properly.

Wa33 is also 2a3 but drives sus fully (I would even say it has stringer control over bass than aic). Both amps are push pull which helps, but in my experience power output vs how something drives sus are great predictors in the ultra high end tbh.

That said, having tried both wa22 and the micro BL on sus, I do disagree that they drive it fully and found them dynamically conpressed and with low levels of floppy bass (just generaly underpowered)

 

[Axel]

Wa33 is also 2a3 but drives sus fully (I would even say it has stringer control over bass than aic). Both amps are push pull which helps, but in my experience power output vs how something drives sus are great predictors in the ultra high end tbh.

That said, having tried both wa22 and the micro BL on sus, I do disagree that they drive it fully and found them dynamically conpressed and with low levels of floppy bass (just generaly underpowered)

Wa33 has 4 2A3 in push pull operation, which can reach 20W.

 

[eskamobob1]

Wa33 has 4 2A3 in push pull operation, which can reach 20W.

Yah. I more of was just trying to say "don't write it off for power alone" in this end of the market. I haven't heard wa23 myself so I can't comment on how it drive sus. I just don't find power output a good predictor of sus driving abilities once you pass like 1W and $4000 (mostly because people stop reporting absalute peak instantaneous power).