[DaMnEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax416 /img/forum/go_quote.gif One last question. I see a lot of people switching out the DAC(i think) and replacing it with an OPA Sun. How would I go about doing this if I were to in the future, and where would I go about buying an OPA Sun.

We do not change the DAC, only the opamp on the DAC section.

You can find that info here: Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 571 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaddix /img/forum/go_quote.gif I read earlier in the thread that opa-earth and lawrences hdam sound exactly the same, but if they are different pieces of hardware that seems impossible right? Does this mean I should get the one from lawrence? He seems to think the one he has is better.

Nothing is impossible and even if they are in fact different they would still share the same basic design/function, so, sounding the same wouldn’t be that farfetched. Having more “FET and transistors” does not necessarily equate to different or better sound.

 

[taso89]

Speaking of which, how difficult would it be to replace the AD1852 DAC chip (not opamp)? The one in the Zero seems less than capable at decoding 192KHz (though it does 96KHz and less just fine).

 

[Trax416]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMnEd /img/forum/go_quote.gif We do not change the DAC, only the opamp on the DAC section. You can find that info here: Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 571 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio Nothing is impossible and even if they are in fact different they would still share the same basic design/function, so, sounding the same wouldn’t be that farfetched. Having more “FET and transistors” does not necessarily equate to different or better sound.

Thanks. From what I gather you need to solder and have some experience. Something, I do not have nor know how to do.

So hopefully the Zero will work well as is. Then work a bit better when I get a Little Dot I+

 

[DaMnEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax416 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. From what I gather you need to solder and have some experience. Something, I do not have nor know how to do. So hopefully the Zero will work well as is. Then work a bit better when I get a Little Dot I+

No, you do not need to solder at all, changing the proposed opamps is just a plug and play solution. You just have to open-up the DAC, take the default opamp, and connect the new one, and you’re done.

Soldering is required only for more advanced modding like changing the default pot for a alps pot and things of that nature, the opamps do not need this because they are socketed no soldering/disordering needed!

 

[Trax416]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMnEd /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you do not need to solder at all, changing the proposed opamps is just a plug and play solution. You just have to open-up the DAC, take the default opamp, and connect the new one, and you’re done. Soldering is required only for more advanced modding like changing the default pot for a alps pot and things of that nature, the opamps do not need this because they are socketed no soldering/disordering needed!

Whoa, well thats good to know. I build computer systems for a living, so anything outside of soldering, is what I do.

Is there a diagram or picture anywhere, where I can see how the procedure is done, and what exactly I am looking for?

 

[LeBuLLeT]

trax416 don't worry about replacing the default op amp. You will see it immediately when you open the Zero. Just take the little chip off and connect it with a better one. I thought that it was going to be difficult but it really isn't it. Super easy trust me. :-D

 

[Trax416]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeBuLLeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif trax416 don't worry about replacing the default op amp. You will see it immediately when you open the Zero. Just take the little chip off and connect it with a better one. I thought that it was going to be difficult but it really isn't it. Super easy trust me. :-D

I am glad, but I really have no idea what I am looking for inside the Zero. I also don't know what chips to replace them with, what the Op amp and DAC look like, or what the other chips I can replace look like (and what they do).

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccschua /img/forum/go_quote.gif Today since I am on public holiday, I decided to check the ZERO DAC more thoroughly and also the issue about grounding. To my surprise, the tightening screw at the DAC and headphone board is measured to give about 9V AC. I cant imagine this is possible since ZERO has a earth wire that is tied to the casing. No choice, I removed the casing earth and tied it to the tightening screw (instead of casing). Now all the tightening screw at DAC and headphone boards is measured almost zero. (3 mV) Measuring RCA output to ground, the variations is less than 1 V ac. Can someone tell me why do I get 9V ac on the casing screw. is it due to leakage? I wonder who knows the specifications of ZERO output voltage. As of now, I took an easy way out, by connecting OPA Earth ground to the tighetning screw. I know I should tied it to the RCA earth, but I am too lazy to do so (involve soldering) Frankly, I like the OPA ground to be connected to earth, as I feel the sound is more to my liking. Slightly more resolution. When I measure the earth vs the RCA ground, the difference is minor. So I was actually riding 9V AC on the OPA ground all this while. phew. When I measure OPA ground with respect to Earth, I get about 0.3V to 0.2V (signal variations).

HI CC,

Sorry I'm so late getting back to you on this...as you know it's a holiday weekend and I was told at noon today the family is due at a BBQ at 2 pm...I had about 20 minutes (slept in for a change, till noon...lazy bugger ..I know

) to poke around the Zero with the meter.

That's really odd your getting 9V at the spot you talked about. When I measured my bolts and then some points on the pcb I was getting 0V DC. Hmmm....I'm not sure I did it correctly at first...so then dropped the range on the meter from 200V DC to 20V...still no reading at either bolt on the H/Amp board (which is good I might add) or the one located near the HDAM on the main PCB. At this time I'm running the ground from the DAC HDAM to the pcb bolt (chassis ground) and the SUN HDAMs unconnected. It occurs to me that pin 4 is V- with V+ getting approx 15.2 V DC from the reg. Wouldn't the V- point on pin 4 simply be the same ground point for the module as the extra lead if you ground that with RCA ground point ? Seems redundant does it not ? Rather wouldn't attachment of the extra ground lead increase the potential for a ground loop ?

I'm just thinking out loud about this...I could be totally wrong about it...

I've tried both positions on the Zero with the leads attached and not...there is no audible difference I can detect. I have yet to try a pcb RCA ground point....I'm thinking of taking the neg legs of the two red 100uf 16V Elna cerafine caps since they are very close to the HDAM in the circuit...I need to disassemble the Zero to solder on some leads from the underside to try it (a small alligator clip will work for a temp connection). Honestly I don't expect any audible improvement since pin 4 V- is on the same ground as the neg legs of the cerafine caps (are they not?). Unless I'm mistaken...which is entirely possible

I have another BBQ to attend tomorrow so I'll likely report the findings on Tuesday after letting the temp ground connection run for a few hours first.

Happy Labor Day weekend to all !!!!!!

Peete.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sennsay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hiya Peete and all, gotta agree with you there, I use three of them in checking on equipment etc and really like the variety on the 20th Anniversary of Chesky Records. Especially love the Bucky Pizzarelli swing stuff, terrific live material, fun! I have been patiently running in my Zero in stock form for over four days now, though have been sorely tempted to pop the 627s and 1364s into it. I have taken the 627s out of my kit head amp (KHA) for now and popped in a 1364 in it's place and have been blown away by the quality of a really good op-amp (still HDAM-less for a few more days yet!). That 1364 is just fabulous in KHA with the with the Zero DAC ahead of it and running into the Trevor Lees tube pre-amp! Last night I was sitting on the floor for hours having a ball, the sheer quality of the bass - and soooo deep - just rocked me at times and some deep synth notes on a particular piece of music just seemed to plummet down my spine and into the floor, like a pit had opened up. I was actually laughing out loud sometimes. The 1364 is definitely better in this position of KHA, not quite so mid forward and holographic, but better balanced all round while maintaining what seems to be a trademark transparency of the LT range. Hey Peete, hope your back is relaxing now and you're still able to listen to some fine tunes. Cheers mate,

Sounds like fun S-Man

The quality of bass, Pench and I have discussed this at length, is IMO the heart and soul of a good system, without it, the music looses it's visceral edge and impact, scale is lost, sense of realism...so many things that are needed to suspend the element of belief that is vital to the enjoyment of recorded music revolves around getting the bass right first and the highs right (in digital playback especially) second.

It's what separates good systems from great ones, again..IMO. Chesky I believe understand this concept...dynamics play a major role...I wish the big labels would stop compressing the life out their recordings (the loudness wars...sigh) and start doing things they way they used to be done. End of mini rant

I'm glad your enjoying your Zero...it's got loads of potential which still has me shaking me head at times....as in how the hell do they do this for 140 bucks..(add a few more $$$ for the upgrades and mods...and it's still peanuts).

Peete.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Trax,

You can't just swap the AD DAC chip (you can if you really want to), the entire DAC is voiced around this DAC's SQ characteristics, besides it's a hell of a job to de solder all those tiny pins without lifting a trace (and killing the pcb board)...just ask AudoPhewl

Sorry AP....your a brave lad for trying that !!!

It's a job I wouldn't even tackle and I have tons of experience rebuilding stuff....smd and huge pin outs packed in with .5 mm spacing ? No way jose

Don't worry, the guys are correct, swapping opamps is dead easy compared to anything else other than adding an HDAM, which is even easier

Peete.

 

[Trax416]

SOunds good. I just don't know where the Opamps are, and what I should switch them to (I keep reading Op-Sun or something along those lines). Also, where would I put an HDAM and how does it work?

I apologize for all these questions, but I am very interested in learning.

If Anyone can get a picture of the insides of the Zero, and circle and label what chips I replace and what each does, I would be very grateful.

 

[viscosity]

so whats the verdict.. Earth in DAC and 2Sun in Headamp or Sun in DAC and 2Earth in headamp?

 

[DaMnEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax416 /img/forum/go_quote.gif SOunds good. I just don't know where the Opamps are, and what I should switch them to (I keep reading Op-Sun or something along those lines). Also, where would I put an HDAM and how does it work? I apologize for all these questions, but I am very interested in learning. If Anyone can get a picture of the insides of the Zero, and circle and label what chips I replace and what each does, I would be very grateful.

When my HDAMs arrive I can do that for you, but that can take a while (Portugal customs sucks), and I’m not sure my cell camera is up to the job .

I do understand you wanting this, and others do as well, this thread is so big no-one can find anything properly. I’m thinking of buying a proper camera soon, if no one does this till then, I will make a tutorial explaining how-to install the HDAMs and or any other opamps, perhaps even the pot mod I’m about to do.

Opamps do have to be inserted in a certain orientation, they can also be inserted the wrong way and burn… they do come with markings to help, but many here are not familiar with electronics and do not know for what to look.

 

[wpfloridian]

Hi Guys,

75+ Hours into the burn-in of my Zero.....WOW!
I was at the Florida meet and can safely say that I do NOT need to spend thousands to get great audio for my music!

Thanks to you all for your time into this message board!! Next step; swap the opamps?...I went the the site of the guys who makes them and he reported being out of stock for the moment..

I have two options one being the swap of the opamp...

As viscosity noted:

"so whats the verdict.. Earth in DAC and 2Sun in Headamp or Sun in DAC and 2Earth in headamp?"


I also spoke with the gentleman from Reference Audio Mods, cd player mods,audio mods, audio modifications and for $500 he would do an overhaul of the Zero..more or less to what he does to the PS AUDIO DAC...is this overkill?? What do you guys think?

 

[DaMnEd]

Spending 5x the amount the default unit costs is the very definition of overkill.

Seriously, do the recommended opamps switch (the OPAs from Audio-GD will be in stock again soon, no worries...) and appreciate what you have for some time, then, if you really find you want more, for that kind of scratch you can get a pro-built DAC unit.