[Radio_head]

Kicked back to the Cantata last night listening to some Sinatra as well.  It was quite pleasing - didn't go for the Nolet's gin mod but I did have some grain alcohol.  Man, that stuff's got a kick.

 

[mwilson]

I've been told that grain alcohol may void the warranty, so I must advise caution.

 

[ursdiego]

Quote:

I've been told that grain alcohol may void the warranty, so I must advise caution.

My brain needs a service right now this moment... I did not apply grain alcohol, who shoud I contact for the warranty...? A cantata for free would as well have a repairing effect...

 

[earflappin]

The heat on the Invicta was very surprising when I first got it.  And you're right about the size, they are not the same.  I think the size of the box compared to the size of the unit surprised me.  First albums were the Hartman/Coltrane Hybrid SACD, Kodama playing Pathetique, and Astigmatic for kicks.  I enjoy this DAC.  

Radio_head, was wondering how you would compare/contrast the Invicta vs the Cantata? I have a Metric Halo LIO-8 and am thinking about the new Lynx Hilo, Invicta and Cantata. I am also intrigued by the XXHE NOS1.

I listen exclusively through speakers.

Thanks.

 

[Radio_head]

In short:
 
The Invicta is closer to the Lio-8's "pro" sound - crystalline details, transparent to a fault, and what seems like better bass than I've heard on a DAC.
 
The Cantata is closer to the DAC202's sound - great tonality and balance, expansive soundstage (not sure how you accomplish that with a DAC) and very "musical" (which some seek out and some see as a derogatory term for a DAC.)  
 
I've found that pairing the super-revealing Invicta with the BA/LCD-3 is truly wonderful, while for the KGSSHV/007Mk1 it's just a little too honest to the sound (I listen to a lot of "non-audiophile" music) and I prefer the Cantata with the Stax.  Some would say the source should be designed for transparency and any deviation from that is just degradation.  There is a reality though of how a lot of music out there is recorded, and in my case when the transducers/amps are brutal to source material the DAC can't be.
 
Never tried the Lynx, and while intrigued by the Phasure unit I ultimately decided not to go that route for a few reasons.  
 
Honestly in my experience there's less variation in between DACs than the CA crowd would have you believe, but if you're at a point in your system where you've improved the rest of your chain - especially the transducers - you can fine-tune with DAC selection.  
 
Also, while I only had the LIO-8 for a short audition from a Gearslutz friend, I recall it and the Invicta as being very similar - if you don't need the additional features and portability of the Invicta, I'm really not prepared to say it will do anything the LIO-8 won't.
 
Forgot one consideration - the Cantata is gorgeous.  

 

[earflappin]

Radio, thanks for that insightful response.  Very helpful.  There is a guy over on CA who has the LIO-8 and Invicta and stated they compared pretty closely.  Another guy A/B'ed the Weiss DAC202 versus the Invicta and rated the Invicta as clearly superior in his system (he has active ATC speakers).  Socrates7 who has the Parttime Audiophile blog site has the Berkeley Alpha 2 with Alpha USB and the Lampizator 4 Plus, seems to prefer the Lampizator on certain material where the BADA2 is just too revealing. There is a guy on Agon who has both the LIO-8 and Cantata and prefers the Cantata.
 
Bottom line, it seems one will prefer a certain DAC over another at this price range (i.e. DAC202, Invicta, Cantata, LIO-8, etc.) depending on system/room set-up, source material and personal preference.  This helps me to better make sense of the various comparisons I've read from users.
 
I have a very revealing system - Geddes Abbey 2 way 95db efficient monitors with compression driver loaded waveguides and NCORE amplifiers driven directly from my DAC/PRE.  As much as I love my LIO-8 the question mark in my mind is that I feel there is a slight smearing on many CDRB recordings and I wonder if is the recording itself or some deficiency in the LIO-8 (analog output stage, filter, etc.).  I think the only way I can answer that question is to try a couple of these DACs in my own system.  I think I will start with the Lynx Hilo as it has been compared to the DAC202 in terms of musicality while still getting outstanding marks for resolution and transparency.  I see also that it has set a new benchmark in the Loopback tests, although I know this is not the ultimate proxy for DAC performance.
 
Have you by chance every heard the Mytek 192 DAC Stereo or NAD M51 ?
 
Thanks again.

 

[Radio_head]

Have not heard the Mytek or the Nad.
 
I agree that with DACs you really have to try them in-home as at that point it's largely a matter of the rest of your system.  The Invicta has a 30 day trial period where you can return at any point for a full refund (exlcuding shipping costs.)  Don't know what the other DACs policies are but for me the free trials are the place to start, followed by dealer demos and trying gear used so as to not lose too much if it doesn't work in your system.

 

[mwilson]

I had the chance to compare the Cantata with the Esoteric X-03SE this weekend over the course of a mini meet. Though DACs weren't its focus, all in attendance concurred that the Cantata has great synergy with the LL & SR-009; it has great dynamics and detail retrieval, with the Esoteric being a little more laid back in its sound presentation. None of us detected any sign of harshness in either.

 

[googleli]

After setting up my speaker system, I must admit that the difference in performance among DACs does not justify the huge cost differences, in most headphone setups. But the difference in imaging and instrument positioning became very prominent when connected to my current speaker system, in an 300 sq. ft. room, to the point that my Zodiac Gold and Weiss DAC202 have gone back to my bedroom and study, respectively, for my headphone setups, and leave my main system in the living room for good.
 
My Esoteric K-01 truly shines in the speaker setup (for details, see my signature block), in both details retrievel and placement of those details, as well as overall imaging, Y axis depth and instrument positioning. IMO, these are the attributes that sets the high end DACs apart from the mid tier ones. My Weiss DAC202 and Zodiac Gold just cannot cut it when the scale of things got much larger. While you can detect some kind of positioning and the Zodiac Gold is still acceptable in terms of instrument positioning, the sound stage is very 2D and lacks depth when compared with the Esoteric. 
 
But frankly, except maybe with the Smyth Realizer and SR009, I don't think the high end DACs' price is justified for any headphone setup, especially after comparison with my Antelope Zodiac Gold and Weiss DAC202. And with the LCD2/3, the difference is so small that it is not even worth it. Based on my experience, I would recommend Head-fiers to refrain from upgrading their sources beyond mid-tier DACs like Zodiac Gold, Weiss DAC202, Resolution Cantata, Berkeley Alpha, PS Audio DAC, unless you are using the true high end DAC for either of the following two purposes:
 
(1) A full speaker system in a reasonably sized room
(2) A Smyth Realizer with a Stax SR009 (or maybe 007) setup

 

[johnwmclean]

Maybe the SRM727ii is the bottleneck...

 

[mwilson]

Now that there is one funny post googleli.

 

[sridhar3]

lol @ "mid-tier DACs like Zodiac Gold, Weiss DAC202, Resolution Cantata, Berkeley Alpha, PS Audio DAC".  Just when I thought you were at your peak with the "jaw dropping"-ness of the Cereballs, you go and fabricate another gem.  Priceless.
 
Have you even heard the Cantata, BADA or PSA PWD/PWT?

 

[Radio_head]

He forgot that Zanden is coming out with their new 90K DAC/Transport soon.  This will of course drop the K-01 to mid-tier, at which point it can be relegated to headphone duty.

 

[googleli]

Quote:

Maybe the SRM727ii is the bottleneck...

 
Yes that could be - will certainly try the K-01 with the Stax again when my BHSE arrives in the next two months (hopefully).

 

[googleli]

Quote:

He forgot that Zanden is coming out with their new 90K DAC/Transport soon.  This will of course drop the K-01 to mid-tier, at which point it can be relegated to headphone duty.

 
As I said the better DACs out there including the PS Audio PWD, the Resolution Cantata, Zodiac Gold and Weiss DAC202 are hard to beat for headphone purposes only, so I would not go further than that