[Craigster75]

Quote:

Well, then I'd say... don't let yourself be bothered by E12 for long. Just be content with BH.
 
In case you ever need more midrange and bass quality, and you want to reduce treble glares, E12 is just right there.
 
And the C421 is now discontinued. You can find it used on the market for approximately $130, so it is now unfortunately in the same ballpark as BH.

Bill,
I am anticipating purchasing the E12 once the revised bass units are available in the US.  Regarding there significant power, do you feel the E12 has an advantage even with lower impedance headphones since the amp can be run at lower levels without being "strained" and as a result will run more cleanly?

 

[Gintaras]

I did not expect this to happen so quick but seems some people just dampen E12 for whatever reason... lol http://www.head-fi.org/t/651620/fiio-e12-mont-blanc-like-new-shipping-included

Sorry this means nothing but I could hold from posting this after seeing this accidentally while checking offers... I apologiseto Fiio owners

 

[Gintaras]

In unrelated post i found a review of jds labs c421 and leckerton uha4, seems like a very tough call ... Wonder what Bill thinks about these two if he had leckerton. Of course i talk about slim version of leckerton. Actually funny if i buy one i will make cockroach race between that and BH, will be fun.

 

[Magicman74]

Hey Bill-P do you think the E12 is too warm for Sennheiser's.  I'm not a Bass Head so the " Original" E12 is fine. I'm torn between the E12 and C&C. C5 is out of the question, For $45 more I can buy another M-Stage so the price isn't good too me.

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

Bill, agree with you. sorry, I was not willing to irritate you and your test of E12 was really interesting. Lets wait how many happy users E12 will get.
 
You know we are all different people with different ears and tastes. What I value however is when people share unbiased opinions and you did great job on this. I would NOT expect you to be BH lover and I fully understand people who love E12 better. my listen of E11 was poor result but I trust you and others who say E12 is better amp.
 
Yes, I forgot to mention why I bumped into E12 forum. I am considering second amp because my daughter will need one. So the idea is either I keep BH and buy something for my daughter or I upgrade to hi-endish amp and give BH to my daughter. She listened to my BH with her iPhone and iPod and she loved BH.

 
Oh no, I'm not irritated. I was only trying to understand your inquiry.
 
There's one thing I would like to admit, though: this review is not unbiased. I liked BH a lot (you can dig up my posts about BH somewhere within the BH thread if you need the story), but I came to like E12 as I listened to it through my headphones. After that first initial impression, I already had a bias in my mind that E12 was the best portable amp I had heard, and my initial ranking of E12 over O2 and C421 reflected that. That was my bias kicking in.
 
So I don't think you should take just my opinions on this matter. Maybe it's best if you purchase an E12 and try it out yourself. I'd also love to hear from other people's impressions regarding E12 vs BH, because I'm really not sure if I wrote all of that without letting my bias kick in.
 
I can tell you one thing for sure, though: C421 is indeed better than BH in every way. If you are having a hard time deciding on what to get, then I'd recommend C421 over E12, especially because you like BH so much.
 
Quote:

Bill,
I am anticipating purchasing the E12 once the revised bass units are available in the US.  Regarding there significant power, do you feel the E12 has an advantage even with lower impedance headphones since the amp can be run at lower levels without being "strained" and as a result will run more cleanly?

 
I think the sensitivity (efficiency) of the headphone needs to be taken into account as well. Some headphones have low impedance but also low sensitivity/efficiency (orthos like the Hifiman HE series or the LCD-2), and as a result, they require lots of power. In fact, when I tried E12 with those headphones at the recent meet, E12 was definitely bumping into its upper limits.
 
That was why O2 won out. O2 sounded effortless with those headphones, whereas E12 sounded like it could use a bit more power.
 
If you meant low impedance but high sensitivity headphones, though, then I think E12 should be fine. My ES10 is low impedance (~40) and high sensitivity, so E12 had ample juice for it.
 
Quote:

In unrelated post i found a review of jds labs c421 and leckerton uha4, seems like a very tough call ... Wonder what Bill thinks about these two if he had leckerton. Of course i talk about slim version of leckerton. Actually funny if i buy one i will make cockroach race between that and BH, will be fun.

 
I haven't tried the Leckerton UHA-4, to be honest. But if I were to buy another portable amp, I think it'd be the Apex Glacier...

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

Hey Bill-P do you think the E12 is too warm for Sennheiser's.  I'm not a Bass Head so the " Original" E12 is fine. I'm torn between the E12 and C&C. C5 is out of the question, For $45 more I can buy another M-Stage so the price isn't good too me.

 
If you're talking about HD 650 and HD 600, then... I'd say yeah, I think E12 is indeed too warm for those. Aside from those headphones, the only other Sennheiser that I plugged E12 in was the HD 800, which it did an okay job with, but I'd still prefer a cleaner and leaner sound on the HD 800.
 
I think E12 is better suited for something that's pretty cold and analytical... like the V-Moda headphones, and some Beyerdynamic (not the DT770). Alternatively, if you have an analytical source (like an iPhone 4/4S/5), then E12 is also a good match for those.
 
If you are okay with purchasing a used amp, then I'd recommend C421 instead. It's in the same ball park as E12 now, and I definitely think C421 is a better match for warm headphones.

 

[Magicman74]

Quote:

 
If you're talking about HD 650 and HD 600, then... I'd say yeah, I think E12 is indeed too warm for those. Aside from those headphones, the only other Sennheiser that I plugged E12 in was the HD 800, which it did an okay job with, but I'd still prefer a cleaner and leaner sound on the HD 800.
 
I think E12 is better suited for something that's pretty cold and analytical... like the V-Moda headphones, and some Beyerdynamic (not the DT770).
 
If you are okay with purchasing a used amp, then I'd recommend C421 instead. It's in the same ball park as E12 now, and I definitely think C421 is a better match for warm headphones.

Thanks for the reply. I'd be using lower end Senns, 400 series, 558 and the like. But I understand what you are saying. These are already warm headphones and the E12 might not have the colder sound I'm going for, I'm not looking for total Analytical just a tad more Mid-Treble clarity.  I have an E11 and really don't like it with the Senns, it has great Bass boosting but is a muddy sounding amp, at least to my ears and music taste.  I guess I'll pull the trigger on the C&C , the price is right and it seems like a better fit.
If not, I can always pass it on

 

[Gintaras]

Bill, thanks that Apex thing looks great. Never seen before.... Pricewise Jds looks more tempting so is Apex worth big extra? Jds which you suggest sounds like a great amp right on the money. BH is one hell of an amp that is dirt cheap and sings so well. Of course surprise factor plays a role too because when you pony 90$ only and hear it your jaw just drops in happy disbelief... Imho BH pushes so well that I must be sure Jsd can push onto another level instead of just mere upgrading. Apex is great but price category is whole lot different and brings a question if I should pick custom made Terra and forget about all amps here )))

Hence Jds sounds more interesting while Apex + player not far from Terra which its owners claim to be true high-end without any reservations.

 

[Craigster75]

Quote:

I did not expect this to happen so quick but seems some people just dampen E12 for whatever reason... lol http://www.head-fi.org/t/651620/fiio-e12-mont-blanc-like-new-shipping-included

Sorry this means nothing but I could hold from posting this after seeing this accidentally while checking offers... I apologiseto Fiio owners

I don't understand the point of your post.  I viewed the listing and saw nothing unusual.  Could you please explain?

 

[pngwn]

Quote:

Quote:

I did not expect this to happen so quick but seems some people just dampen E12 for whatever reason... lol http://www.head-fi.org/t/651620/fiio-e12-mont-blanc-like-new-shipping-included

Sorry this means nothing but I could hold from posting this after seeing this accidentally while checking offers... I apologiseto Fiio owners

I don't understand the point of your post.  I viewed the listing and saw nothing unusual.  Could you please explain?

 
I think Gin's poking fun at the fact that someone sold their E12 so quickly after all the hype and praise it's been getting.
 
 

Bill-P, no, this makes little sense since we talk about amps costing 100-130$, going up i can have whatever amp i wish. ironically before i decided to buy BH my target amp was Leckerton or Predator... both much more expensive. Now i feel happy about BH and see not much need for upgrade. This is why i was also sceptic about E12 being any much better than BH. I know best of best from the upper costing chain. However i find it most difficult to find real gems like BH costing dirty cheap and pushing much above its weight.
I trust all what you say but i am not sure E12 will be a giant leap forward for me. also i do not see much need for upgrading now and if i need one i will go high-end way and take Terra player. but at the moment i am not compelled.
 

 
I have both the BH and the E12. Personally, I think the E12 sounds just a bit better than the BH for according to my tastes for a warm and full-bodied sounds, which is coincidentally appropriate given the E12 is only just a bit more expensive than the BH by $30. The E12 is not a giant leap forward from the BH, but the FiiO's more textured bass presentation wins me over as opposed to the C&C's slightly more neutral and clear sound. Just depends on what you're looking for in your sound.

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

Bill, thanks that Apex thing looks great. Never seen before.... Pricewise Jds looks more tempting so is Apex worth big extra? Jds which you suggest sounds like a great amp right on the money. BH is one hell of an amp that is dirt cheap and sings so well. Of course surprise factor plays a role too because when you pony 90$ only and hear it your jaw just drops in happy disbelief... Imho BH pushes so well that I must be sure Jsd can push onto another level instead of just mere upgrading. Apex is great but price category is whole lot different and brings a question if I should pick custom made Terra and forget about all amps here )))

Hence Jds sounds more interesting while Apex + player not far from Terra which its owners claim to be true high-end without any reservations.

 
I think the Glacier's main draw is that it has a built-in DAC that can do 24-bit 96KHz, so it would be good for those occasions when I want to completely bypass the computer's built-in DAC. Some computers have pretty bad DAC after all.
 
But that aside, yeah, I think C421 really does push it onto another level. C421 has more depth, and a cleaner, more precise presentation. BH sounds flatter, and it has slight but audible distortions in the treble and bass region when both the SF and LF switches are on at the same time.

 

[gavinfabl]

Hey Bill-P do you think the E12 is too warm for Sennheiser's.  I'm not a Bass Head so the " Original" E12 is fine. I'm torn between the E12 and C&C. C5 is out of the question, For $45 more I can buy another M-Stage so the price isn't good too me.

I use my HD 558's with the E12. For me it's the best sound combo I've heard. At the Bristol Sound & Vision show I connected my E12 to the HD700 and HD800. Similar sound with both although I preferred the HD 700.

 

[Bill-P]

A Pioneer SE-700 just came into my hands...
 
...and I think this is a perfect example of why something like the Fiio E12 exists!
 
I hope the Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II that's coming is powerful enough for this beast.

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

A Pioneer SE-700 just came into my hands...
 
...and I think this is a perfect example of why something like the Fiio E12 exists!

 
If I ever get a power hungry pair of headphones, then I am sure that I will be agreeing with you!
 
For now, I will have to be satisfied with the E12 simply existing to make all of my non-power hungry headphones and iems sound amazing

 

[dkgolfsports]

Hi, I  just ordered the Audio Technica ad900x with the Fiio e12. I'm excited to see how that combination works together. The only negative is that the portable device I am using is a Zune 120, which can only interface through the headphone out.