Review: Fiio E12 (comparison to C&C BH + JDS Labs O2 + JDS Labs C421)
Apr 10, 2013 at 9:22 PM Post #166 of 233
Quote:
To my understanding the OP had E12 for three hours before writing this comparison.

 
Wow... even shorter than I thought.  
 
While I appreciate the effort;  I felt like I was reading a Fiio advertisement and so stopped reading
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 12:35 AM Post #167 of 233
If it makes any difference to you, I ended up buying the BH and E12 out of curiousity after reading OP's initial comparison between the two and had similar experiences with both: E12 affords far better bass texture and presence while the BH provides a very slightly wider soundstage and better detail retrieval at the cost of strong, almost sibilant highs. My impressions were made over the course of a week with both amps using an AD900x.
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 1:28 AM Post #169 of 233
Quote:
If it makes any difference to you, I ended up buying the BH and E12 out of curiousity after reading OP's initial comparison between the two and had similar experiences with both: E12 affords far better bass texture and presence while the BH provides a very slightly wider soundstage and better detail retrieval at the cost of strong, almost sibilant highs. My impressions were made over the course of a week with both amps using an AD900x.

 
I believe these are often correlated.  A brightness or sibilance can add a sense of detail and brings out some of the soundstage auditory cues.  Even on a single amp, simply changing a setting like gain of the Arrow (and something similar on my kilobuck monoblocks) can introduce an artifact that seems desirable but also is annoying, often subconsciously.  This is one reason reviewing can take so long (the "thinking" cerebral cortex notices "aspects," but the lower-level "limbic system" is more wholistic and can sense things that are hard to "notice" deliberately).  
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 2:35 AM Post #170 of 233
Wow... even shorter than I thought.  

While I appreciate the effort;  I felt like I was reading a Fiio advertisement and so stopped reading


You can take my points and compare it to other E12 reviews and see if I'm just advertising for Fiio. I think you'll find that most reviews share the same sentiments.

Also, I don't think you should judge an amp before you listen to it.

Plus some side notes:
- I compared E12 to O2 directly after a whole week of ownership. The sound didn't change.
- After that whole week, I promptly traded it for a JDS Labs C421, so it's not like I was in love with the amp.
- Now I have a different amp that is truly better than E12, BH, C421, and maybe even O2, but it's already beyond the scope of this thread.
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 3:08 AM Post #171 of 233
Bill, i trust your findings on E12 but OP also wrote on E11 vs. BH and let me say his findings were contradicting my experience with both. while i would agree about sometimes overly energetic sound signature of BH i found overall musical presentation being better on BH vs. E11.
 
no opinion on E12 since i had no chance to give it a listen and not interested in spending money out of curiousity too since my T1 will be arriving soon and i am sure T1 will be a much better amp for my setup.
 
NB: i am always wondering if people confuse something about bass texture because for me bass is all about airy articulation where i can hear every drum element in play and tonal richness,   ... so far i find BH doing this better than E11 and cannot agree to claims like better bass texture on E11. i always prefer quality over quantity even when it means less bass attack. if i cannot hear the air moving after drum slam i would throw away such equipment immediately. someone who at least once had the chance to play or stand on stage during drums playing will understand what i mean. for me best bass is when i can feel air still moving shortly after the drums attack has stopped. and should i mention the same about bass guitar? i do not know if my English is enough to explain this but this how i hear bass.
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 6:02 AM Post #172 of 233
Quote:
You can take my points and compare it to other E12 reviews and see if I'm just advertising for Fiio. I think you'll find that most reviews share the same sentiments.

Also, I don't think you should judge an amp before you listen to it.

Plus some side notes:
- I compared E12 to O2 directly after a whole week of ownership. The sound didn't change.
- After that whole week, I promptly traded it for a JDS Labs C421, so it's not like I was in love with the amp.
- Now I have a different amp that is truly better than E12, BH, C421, and maybe even O2, but it's already beyond the scope of this thread.

I usually try to wait until Head-fi's FOTM period is over with new gear (usually a few months) and gauge what they say about it then.  Not judging the amp...just the entire Fiio lineup; yeah thats bias but was never impressed with the fiio products.  Thats me though.
 
Beyond the scope of this thread?  Sort of an elitist comment (no offense; just how it sounded)
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 7:00 AM Post #173 of 233
I usually try to wait until Head-fi's FOTM period is over with new gear (usually a few months) and gauge what they say about it then.  Not judging the amp...just the entire Fiio lineup; yeah thats bias but was never impressed with the fiio products.  Thats me though.

Beyond the scope of this thread?  Sort of an elitist comment (no offense; just how it sounded)


Elitist?
Seriously?
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 9:45 AM Post #174 of 233
Apr 11, 2013 at 9:57 AM Post #175 of 233
Eelitist, what U mean & why? funny....
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 1:54 PM Post #176 of 233
First..im not saying this is what the OP meant but this is the way i read and interpreted it.
 
"Now I have a different amp that is truly better than E12, BH, C421, and maybe even O2, but it's already beyond the scope of this thread." =
 
I now own an amp even more superior than these aforementioned amps; it is so beyond that it should not even be mentioned in a thread about c&c, e12 and the jds amp....even though i started this thread and mentioned it in this comment I shall not name it.
 
Maybe its out of context but thats the way i read it.  Now I didn't say any ill felt comment about the op or the review.... but just by reading it; just for me... its pretty hard to discernibly have one sample beat out another sample in pretty much all aspects with just a few hours of listening to them.  There's always the honeymoon period and head-fi's patented "Flavor of the Month" toy.  Now I appreciate he took the time and wrote out his first impressions of the amp... I would like to have a Fiio product that performs well because they are at a good price point and easy to come by, but just reading that review with little or no knowledge about the E12.... it read like a Fiio advertisement.   I didn't say his views were wrong, or that they're inaccurate... im just a wary and cautious about it since his results were pretty one sided.  
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 2:43 PM Post #177 of 233
Teke, indeed funny... you know people like DAPs also different, sometimes some dudes just speak rubbish and worse they believe themselves... Now i can see your point, just did care to read every post before this.
 
Apr 11, 2013 at 11:33 PM Post #178 of 233
Quote:
First..im not saying this is what the OP meant but this is the way i read and interpreted it.
 
"Now I have a different amp that is truly better than E12, BH, C421, and maybe even O2, but it's already beyond the scope of this thread." =
 
I now own an amp even more superior than these aforementioned amps; it is so beyond that it should not even be mentioned in a thread about c&c, e12 and the jds amp....even though i started this thread and mentioned it in this comment I shall not name it.
 
Maybe its out of context but thats the way i read it.  Now I didn't say any ill felt comment about the op or the review.... but just by reading it; just for me... its pretty hard to discernibly have one sample beat out another sample in pretty much all aspects with just a few hours of listening to them.  There's always the honeymoon period and head-fi's patented "Flavor of the Month" toy.  Now I appreciate he took the time and wrote out his first impressions of the amp... I would like to have a Fiio product that performs well because they are at a good price point and easy to come by, but just reading that review with little or no knowledge about the E12.... it read like a Fiio advertisement.   I didn't say his views were wrong, or that they're inaccurate... im just a wary and cautious about it since his results were pretty one sided.  

 
My bad. That was poor choice of words. It was late at night, and I was dead tired, but still, no excuse!
 
I meant that sentence this way: this thread was made specifically for reviewing the E12. Since I no longer have access to an E12, any detailed "comparison" I can "claim" is dubious at best, so I don't feel like I should write anything more on the matter. If I'm going to write up anything like that, it'll be a separate review thread, and only when I have access to another E12. Maybe I'll buy the v2 E12 just to see if Fiio has improved on the soundstage.
 
Also if you'd like to read up a few more reviews of the E12, here are some:
 
http://www.headfonia.com/fiios-power-pack-the-fiio-e12-mont-blanc/
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650683/fiio-e12-mont-blanc-review-and-help-thread
http://www.head-fi.org/t/655283/impression-fiio-e12-mont-blanc-way-to-pinnacle
 
 
Bill, i trust your findings on E12 but OP also wrote on E11 vs. BH and let me say his findings were contradicting my experience with both. while i would agree about sometimes overly energetic sound signature of BH i found overall musical presentation being better on BH vs. E11.
 
no opinion on E12 since i had no chance to give it a listen and not interested in spending money out of curiousity too since my T1 will be arriving soon and i am sure T1 will be a much better amp for my setup.
 
NB: i am always wondering if people confuse something about bass texture because for me bass is all about airy articulation where i can hear every drum element in play and tonal richness,   ... so far i find BH doing this better than E11 and cannot agree to claims like better bass texture on E11. i always prefer quality over quantity even when it means less bass attack. if i cannot hear the air moving after drum slam i would throw away such equipment immediately. someone who at least once had the chance to play or stand on stage during drums playing will understand what i mean. for me best bass is when i can feel air still moving shortly after the drums attack has stopped. and should i mention the same about bass guitar? i do not know if my English is enough to explain this but this how i hear bass.


 
Well, I wrote the review.
 
And I don't think I wrote anything along the lines of E11 vs BH. Did you post this response after reading something else?
 
The whole first post was about E12 vs BH.
 
Although, if you are wondering, I personally find BH better than E11 in just about every way except for bass boost, but that's just because E11 overdoes it. That's all I can remember of that, since I no longer have an E11, and the only time I got to compare them was at the beginning of March when a friend came over.
 
My amp arsenal has just BH and Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II now, so... that should tell you how much I still value the BH.
 
Apr 12, 2013 at 2:19 AM Post #179 of 233
Bill, nothing wrong meant and i know you compared E12, but there was another chap posting about E11 outclassing BH which i found a bit too much.
 
no worry, there was no question about questioning your opinion, i know you have honest approach to things.
 
Apr 12, 2013 at 12:32 PM Post #180 of 233
Quote:
yes seriously.  

 
 
Well if Bill P posts "the other amp" in here, some might say "Why are going off topic? This is an E12, O2, BH, C421 thread! Stay on topic!"
 
Kinda like:
"Tails I win, heads you loose"         (with apologies to Steve Tyler, BTW!)
 

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