[grawk]

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - aka Lying about your competitor's future. Not at all about paying big bucks for a print ad about a future product of your own.

It's outright rude to accuse one of the most standup guys I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with of spreading FUD. He PROMOTES other companies instead of his own at most opportunities. If they want to build some anticipation for an upcoming product line through paid advertisements in magazines, why does this get your panties in a bunch? Good grief.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - aka Lying about your competitor's future. Not at all about paying big bucks for a print ad about a future product of your own. It's outright rude to accuse one of the most standup guys I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with of spreading FUD. He PROMOTES other companies instead of his own at most opportunities. If they want to build some anticipation for an upcoming product line through paid advertisements in magazines, why does this get your panties in a bunch? Good grief.

While I have no further thoughts on this subject, I will clarify a few things mis-stated in the above post.

First of all, your paraphrasing of the definition of FUD is far too limited, and inaccurate in my usage. FUD is most often accomplished today by companies simply releasing product information prior to its actual availability to the public, thereby creating fear, uncertainty, & doubt about competing products currently on the market. Potential customers for the product already rolling of one manufacturer's line will hold off purchasing now because a new product is "just" on the horizon.

Secondly, and more importantly, I never, ever, ever said Headroom subscribed to lying or speaking maliciously about any competitor. Please do not put words in my mouth that are not on this page.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I have no further thoughts on this subject, I will clarify a few things mis-stated in the above post.

I think Grawk pretty much nailed it Jimmy, sorry. While I won't go so far to say that you didn't know what you were talking about it's clear that you don't understand the full meaning of the terms that you ascribed to Headroom. Both have a significantly negative connotation (as was recently pointed out to me when I misused Vaporware) and imply dishonesty on the part of the company in question.

If you're frustrated about Headroom advertising products that aren't ready for production you're welcome to express that displeasure. I'm sure they value the feedback, but to do so in the manner that you did is pretty unfair. You might as well paint Ray's Predator thread, Justin's Pico thread and a whole host of other pre-release information threads around here with the same brush. Funny, I don't see you doing that but you sure seem more than willing to rail on one of the more admirable members of this community.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

We knew that series of ads would piss of some people ... oh well. Any press is good press; got people talking, eh?

Seriously, one of the reasons we're doing the series of ads is because people mostly don't understand what our Desktop amps can do. They're really not a headphone amp as much as they are a Desktop Pre-Amp ----someday we'll rename it something like that. We've found that it's VERY difficult to deliver the impression quickly (which is what you have to do in an ad) of the type of things the Desktop Amp is capable of. We determined the best way to get the ides across is to essentially complete a Desktop Audio System, take a picture of it, and then publish it. Audiophiles will see a complete system that bares a resemblance to what they've got in the listening room and they'll "get it." So a lot of our motive is to get the idea across that a fully featured headphone amp is really a great "center" for your desktop audio.

As far as "FUD" goes .... hmmm ... maybe a little. I certainly admit that I feel pressure that one of these days someone is going to get off their butt and build audiophile desktop systems, and I suppose I do press hard to be first and if that means sticking my foot in the door to be first, I'll do it. OTOH, it's a relatively complicated set-up that has a number of features and concepts that are somewhat new to the market place. I'd hate to come out with a product and then sit around waiting for six months while people drum up an eagerness to buy, so we start priming the pump with an introductory series of ads. What is wrong with that exactly? Pissed off because you can't have one yet? Good! That's what we're looking for.

I know there'll be some folks like jpelg who respond negatively, but, from what we've seen so far, most folks appreciate the opportunity to watch news in the making. We're not waisting their time with a bunch of "Yippee yahooee" baloney either; the series of ads will discuss and educate (as far as one can in ads, which isn't very) about the things that go into great near-field listening. So, I'm comfortable with the balance we're striking.

Sorry, Jimmy, if this kind of marketing sticks in your craw, but that's the way we are. I promise, I'm not doing it to hurt anyone, just getting the word out about upcomming listening opportunities. Also, we did run ads on the new stuff in the last few issues.

 

[Jahn]

the actual product of stuff to go with the desktop line that aren't headphones may not be on the market yet, but the desktop line is here and ads like this do help get folks' heads around the idea of a Desktop system.

and it results in actually moving current Desktop product too, i think. last week i walked by a truck delivering a Headroom box here on Park Ave - Desktop-sized by my figuring. someone's office is a bit happier now i'd say

dont get me wrong, i get JPelg's issue with the "if no speakers to sell today, why is it in the ad today" thing, but i also get the "we need to get the word out on Desktops, even if the whole deal isn't out there yet" thing.

in the end, one more system where there is currently only a stapler and a tape dispenser is a good thing, no matter how it happens

that guy is probably using a pair of powered monitors from Staples to drive it for now tho, hehe!

 

[granodemostasa]

you're not entirely the first. at calapolooza there were 3 audio companies, and two of them had desktop set ups to show off what computer audio can do for college students. (UE was the third, showing off what they can do for ipods).

 

[jpelg]

Thank you, Tyll, for that well-reasoned & calming response. Much appreciated.

At the very least, this thread has brought me closer to understanding where you are coming from, as well as the wants & desires of my fellow Head-Fiers.

I look forward to hearing that desktop speaker setup.

 

[mrarroyo]

20 posts of mostly people upset because a Head-Fier (jpelg) stated that 6 months ago a product was unveiled, and now there is an add on a publication stating that it will not be available for another 6 months.

In my simple mind that is the way I read his post. Yet many here went for the jugular in what to me was a knee jerk reaction.

HeadRoom is a responsible company w/ very good products and outstanding customer service. Just because someone has an issue w/ a particular marketing technique should not cause the rampage that it did (IMO).

Lately I am seeing way to many threads get quite aggressive and IMO it is a shame.

 

[jp11801]

I fail to see the rampage? HF is really becoming way to emo/pc/sensative. I really do not see the harm in spirited discussions. Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif 20 posts of mostly people upset because a Head-Fier (jpelg) stated that 6 months ago a product was unveiled, and now there is an add on a publication stating that it will not be available for another 6 months. In my simple mind that is the way I read his post. Yet many here went for the jugular in what to me was a knee jerk reaction. HeadRoom is a responsible company w/ very good products and outstanding customer service. Just because someone has an issue w/ a particular marketing technique should not cause the rampage that it did (IMO). Lately I am seeing way to many threads get quite aggressive and IMO it is a shame.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fail to see the rampage? HF is really becoming way to emo/pc/sensative. I really do not see the harm in spirited discussions.

Agreed. Jimmy obviously feels strongly about this issue, and is pretty blunt about it, which is his right of course. I also commend Tyll for his measured responses to criticisms on this board. If anything, this thread shows that while some of us may disagree with the direction a manufacturer might take, at least we have the manufacturer's ear (no pun

).

Anyway, what kind of power supply will the Class D amp use?

 

[unclejr]

Can I ask a quick redirect here for a sec ... anyone in marketing -- I know it's tough to get numbers on ad conversions in most media. Even internet click through figures from Google Analytics, etc. are sometimes not 100% appropriately leading. It's the age old problem of (a) no data to begin with and (b) a ton of data that's hard to actually interpret.

Anyway, all this is a long-winded way of asking, is there evidence to believe that this sort of advertising is actually effective? Admittedly, I don't understand the market from any perspective but my own as one, possibly non-standard consumer of these products.

But there's usually a call to action that's sort of a classic feature of "good" ads -- what kind of call to action can be made 6 months out? Will your customers forget about the product?

A product would have to be very compelling for it to be worthwhile. Just curious and would be interested to hear more informed thoughts on.

*I obviously have not seen the ad, by the way (though I have seen past HeadRoom ads in Sterophile).

 

[n_maher]

I know nothing of marketing, but in this instance the add is part of a series that will run for the next several months explaining more about the product each time. So it's not like the add will appear and then you'll get nothing till its ready for production.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know nothing of marketing, but in this instance the add is part of a series that will run for the next several months explaining more about the product each time. So it's not like the add will appear and then you'll get nothing till its ready for production.

I think this will run a similar course as the balanced headphones campaign, no? Tells a story over the course of a few months

 

[Spareribs]

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spareribs /img/forum/go_quote.gif

can you elaborate?