[Ivy]

You guys are right, this ad is in a 6 month series of ads-- so it will be much more "relevant" as the series goes on.

This is part of being a company on the bleeding edge, or at least the inflamed edge

. When Tyll started HeadRoom, almost no one made headphone amps. He had to spend years telling people about what a headphone amp is, and more importantly why you need one. This is the same sort of campaign... many people may not be totally aware of the exact nature of their problem, or what they're missing out on, so that when a solution/product is released it's not recognized as such. Companies need to "connect the dots" when products released that are unfamiliar to consumers or are positioned in a new way. You don't see a bunch of desktop speaker ads in Stereophile. Why do you need them? Why do you need speaker stands? There's a lot to tell there, and the feedback we received from doing our balanced headphone ad series was extremely positive. Consumers seemed to appreciate the fact that we gave them informative material that was actually educational rather than knee-jerk "click here now!" stuff, that quite frankly I feel often insults our intelligence.

The question is why did we put the picture in when they aren't available? Why didn't we talk about some of the other upcoming subjects (which you'll see are not as "product centric" but involve usage and set-up type stuff) and then unveil the products at the end? Well, we didn't do that because we wanted to show where we were going; this is what's coming as the result of these discussions-- otherwise they wouldn't have much relevance.

More interesting to me, is why did we show a product at Headfest that was so far away from production? Well, because you guys are special.

Well, first I'll acknowledge that as a manufacturer, there is some pressure to show new products, FOTM is a two way street-- it wouldn't be a term if there weren't a lot of people clamoring for (and buying)the latest and greatest. But the real reason we showed stuff so far in advance is this (and Tyll PLEASE correct anything I say here): you have the boss' ear and he understands the value of this community. He wanted to show you what our plans were for the future, and get very valuable feedback from some really tough and really fair critics. Head-fi'ers enjoy getting "first word" on upcoming stuff, talking to manufacturers directly, enjoying special events & discounts, trying out products before release, etc. But manufacturers need to get something out of that deal too, so head-fi becomes a focus group of sorts. And with this, you're going to get too much info sometimes, not enough info other times.

And, fwiw- I have no problem whatsoever with jpelg calling us out on our ad tactics, they are certainly rather unconventional. I think it's made for some good dialog about why we do what we do. (Hey, if you think this is weird, you'll see a lot more stuff in our ad archives!

)We don't measure the success of our monthly ad by how many sales it brings in-- it just doesn't work that way, and 99% of the time companies won't be able to justify their ad budgets. Building brand awareness, creating new product categories, cultivating the return customer... these are things that are slow, on-going, and strategic. I believe it's these things, in conjunction with building great products, that give HeadRoom it's longetivity and growth in a rather volatile marketplace.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Ivy pretty much covered it, but I thought this comment might be worthwhile.

One of the common things we hear when we have the chance to inquire is that Stereophile readers often say that one of the first things they do when the open their Stereophile is to read the HeadRoom ad! What!? Why look forward to reading an ad? Well, the answer is that there's allways something new ... and maybe a little unexpected joke. I believe strongly that we run a very successful ad campaign there BECAUSE we almost always present a new ad and deliver some useful and entertaining ideas.

There's been a comment here in this thread that we don't communicate enough. If we had a hundred employees there would be plenty more than we do now, but with only 20 folks here that's just not possible. OTOH, tell me about someone who does more? Who? No, all things considered, I think we focus pretty well on communicating. Want more on the new Micro line? Here, download the manuals.

Still, Jimmy points out we can do better, and we will ... over time, and you can bet we're doing what we can now.

 

[Voltron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivy /img/forum/go_quote.gif More interesting to me, is why did we show a product at Headfest that was so far away from production? Well, because you guys are special.

The really real reason was because Tyll was so incredibly excited about the desktop audio concept that he couldn't contain himself!

AND THAT IS COOL! Just describing how he was going to set up the HeadRoom room in advance of HeadFest led to Tyll describe his new fascination with the Squeezebox/Transporter, some upgrade software that predicts what you want to hear, and how it unleashed his music collection, etc. etc. etc. Plus, the prototypes at HeadFest were mocked up to some extent for our benefit and rightly generated a lot of interest and attention, but it was always clear that these were coming out down the road.

Tyll is looking forward for his company and for our hobby, so there is nothing remotely wrong with an advertising campaign to get others to look ahead too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seriously, one of the reasons we're doing the series of ads is because people mostly don't understand what our Desktop amps can do. They're really not a headphone amp as much as they are a Desktop Pre-Amp ----someday we'll rename it something like that. We've found that it's VERY difficult to deliver the impression quickly (which is what you have to do in an ad) of the type of things the Desktop Amp is capable of. We determined the best way to get the ides across is to essentially complete a Desktop Audio System, take a picture of it, and then publish it. Audiophiles will see a complete system that bares a resemblance to what they've got in the listening room and they'll "get it." So a lot of our motive is to get the idea across that a fully featured headphone amp is really a great "center" for your desktop audio.

Back to the original point of this thread, my HeadRoom Desktop amp IS the the center of my desktop audio even though the amp part gets the least play. Mine is connected to the s/pdif out of my laptop dock and works primarily as DAC and preamp for powered monitors. I listen to headpones in the office seldom but they are here if I want them. It is a great setup and plays music every day for hours a day. If the speaker and amplification were even better, then it would be equal to many home rigs (it probably blows out many, many home setups already, if I do say so myself).

When Tyll started talking about the Class D amps and speaker stands he was cooking up, I said that was exactly what I had been asking for. When I set this rig up, I thought there had to be some incentive for HeadRoom to make this very leap to matching power amps and I am excited like Tyll is for the landing.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fail to see the rampage? HF is really becoming way to emo/pc/sensative. I really do not see the harm in spirited discussions.

Well, maybe it is my limited comprehension of the english language. But when I see individuals making statemets as quoted below I consider it a rampage.

Quote:

…What the hell did he do to you, man?…. …you sound like a whiny kid… …or quit your whining… …t's outright rude to accuse…

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, maybe it is my limited comprehension of the english language. But when I see individuals making statemets as quoted below I consider it a rampage.

I see no sense in beating a dead horse here. Jimmy has agreed that the way in which he tried to start a discussion in this thread wasn't the best plan and the rest of us probably over reacted a little too. But I think you're being a bit overly sensitive about the "rampage" aspect, seems to me a while back you said you weren't going to post here anymore. Me, I'd rather see you stick around and offer your perspective on things but you need to take the good with the bad and not react to someone criticizing another as the end of the world. I think this place could use a little more lively discussion rather than anything but undying love being view as "anti-fanboyism" or whatever the buzz word is these days.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see no sense in beating a dead horse here. Jimmy has agreed that the way in which he tried to start a discussion in this thread wasn't the best plan and the rest of us probably over reacted a little too. But I think you're being a bit overly sensitive about the "rampage" aspect, seems to me a while back you said you weren't going to post here anymore. Me, I'd rather see you stick around and offer your perspective on things but you need to take the good with the bad and not react to someone criticizing another as the end of the world. I think this place could use a little more lively discussion rather than anything but undying love being view as "anti-fanboyism" or whatever the buzz word is these days.

I was not responding to what jpelg had to say. That portion as you said is over, instead I was responding to jp11801's comment on my use of the word rampage.

Just because my interpretation of a few comments and my use of the word rampage is different than yours or someone elses should not be a surprise. We all hear differently and we could all interpret a set of statements differently as well.

Lively discussion is fine, however when it crosses the line of a discussion to personal comments/attacks then IMO "we" have gone to far. I stand by my previous comment that calling someone "rude", "whiny", or telling him "...what the hell ..." crossed that line.

Quote:

...seems to me a while back you said you weren't going to post here anymore...

Yes I said so due to a poster who as a result of his personal attacks was banned from this forum. So what was your purpose in bringing my coment on this discussion?

 

[jpelg]

[size=xx-small]Question re: nearfield setup[/size]

Forgive if this has been covered elsewhere, but are the stands, speakers, & amp being manufactured in Bozeman?

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=xx-small]Question re: nearfield setup[/size] Forgive if this has been covered elsewhere, but are the stands, speakers, & amp being manufactured in Bozeman?

I believe they are US made and it was the design and composition of the stands that were causing delays from my bourbon soaked memory of speaking with Tyl at the meet.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, maybe it is my limited comprehension of the english language. But when I see individuals making statemets as quoted below I consider it a rampage.

while you may have seen it as a "rampage" I saw it as two guys with strong opinions voicing them , while both parties were probably a bit OTT what you may not know is it was fairly obvious both Nate and Jimmy have strong opinions and have previously disagreed. This is probably more of a members section topic than a Headroom forum topic though.
I see it differently and I am sure they are both big boys and have handled this amongst themselves, at least it sounded as though they did without any help from you or me

PS nice to see you back it would have been nice to see you at the meet though

Tyl sorry this thread went sideways, I look forward to hearing the full on desk top set up at Can Jam if it sounds like it did in San Jose you should have a real winner on your hands.

 

[Ivy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=xx-small]Question re: nearfield setup[/size] Forgive if this has been covered elsewhere, but are the stands, speakers, & amp being manufactured in Bozeman?

Good question. The speaker stands & and power amps will be manufactured in Bozeman, but I couldn't tell you exactly where the speakers are manufactured. We will be retailing only a couple of types of speakers (we're not exactly sure which ones yet but expect to have a lot more of this sorted out by January) -- and will be encouraging folks to visit their local dealer to get speakers that work best for them.

Regarding another comment that the speaker stands were what was holding up production... actually, we have been planning on a spring release for these products. I'm not sure exactly what we said at Headfest (We may need to get a little better about appropriately setting expectations on release dates) but they've pretty much been slated for '08 all along.

Having released 6 new products this fall, we obviously have to pace our product releases for many reasons, like money, time, money, time, and oh yeah; money & time.

 

[sleeplessness]

Gentlemen,

I usually don't say much because ya'll have much more knowledge than I in the audiophile intricasies (although I'm learning gobs here) but I really have to take issue with the criticism of showing, in an ad, something you can't get.

I've been the the advertising and marketing end of business for thirty years and although I didn't see the ad, I've figured it out; consider the following:
When you see an ad for Porsche, Audi, or even Mercedes Benz lately and they are showcasing one of their cars used solely for racing do you write them or think "what bs, I can't get one of those..." or does it inspire you to seek out their product because they are pushing the limits of their automobile design?

Come on kids, this is much more interesting than describing last years' model...I for one want to know where I am going, not where I have been...I've adheared (haha) to this philosophy with my clients for years...

Further, I have been dealing with these people of Headroom for about three years now and can't praise them enough. (No, I'm not on their payroll...) Their service and products are way above my expectations...every encounter I have had with them. I can only think of a few other companies that I have had such positive repeat interactions...and everyone stands behind their products...always!

I guess I'm somewhat surprised that some seem to forget what this is all about...

Now about that Portable Desktop Amp...

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Thanks for your kind words which I've snipped from your quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeplessness /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been the the advertising and marketing end of business for thirty years .... When you see an ad for Porsche, Audi, or even Mercedes Benz lately and they are showcasing one of their cars used solely for racing do you write them or think "what bs, I can't get one of those..." .. Come on kids, this is much more interesting than describing last years' model...I for one want to know where I am going, not where I have been...I've adheared (haha) to this philosophy with my clients for years...

We use our Max line as our "racing team." The precursor launch of information on our Desktop Audio System is motivated somewhat differently.

Almost always, when a new product is released, you get a little burst of sales, which soon drops down to a base-line level that reflects the nominal market demand for the product. This little burst up front is due to "pent up demand." Most times, a new product is based on improvements of an existing product, either one of your own or a competitors. The pent up demand bump comes from people familiar with existing products and the perceived deficiencies of them. When a new product appears that satisfies the deficiencies, there is a pool of people who are already aware of the problem and recognize the new solution and buy immediately. That's the pent up demand bump. After they've all bought (or decided not to) the remaining demand represents the rate at which people come to discover and appreciate the new product. That's the normal primary job of marketing, to identify and project the values of a product to a broad market.

Now the problem is that we're sometimes so innovative that when we produce a completely new kind of product, there is no pre-existing pent-up demand. When it first appears, people say, "What the heck is that?" For example, our BlockHead, first commercially available balanced headphone amp. With that product we experienced no "pent-up demand" bump, because there is no pent up demand if someone is completely unaware that a balanced headphone amp could or should exist.


Now, this pent-up demand bump is very important for the maker. Let me give you just one of many reasons. When we build our Power Amp, we will have to buy the ICE modules in minimum lots of 50. Which means we have to increase how much inventory we carry by a significant amount. That increase in inventory can only come from prior profit. Profit dollars are very dear and hard to come by. We really can't be without them for too long. But if we can create a pent-up demand, and if we can order the modules to arrive here just before we start to sell them, we might be able to sell off the fifty ICE modules before we have to pay for them, and have the profit left over to pay for the next round of modules. In other words, if you can create a pent up demand, you make the inventory new product sale at least partially pay for the increase in inventory and make introducing a new product a little less painful.

Now, in the case of the Desktop Audiophile System, we have a relatively new type of product---there's really nothing quite like it to my knowledge. But there are things like it in the sense that it's simply a miniature stereo on your desk. And there's also now a category of bookshelf stereos in small packages, but they really aren't marketed as a desktop solution. The desktop solution peole have in their head is computer speakers basically. What we're trying to do with this series of ads is to provide a little paradigm shift for folks so that the understand the a miniature stereo for there desk is possible and what it's benefits might be early enough for them to internally assign the value of it for themselves. Some folks will desire it enough to buy. And then, when it's released, we'll get that lovely pent up demand bump that we usually enjoy when we improve existing products.