[tenzip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quote: Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif Electrons are not dump trucks Have you taken a look at the connections inside TRS jacks? They certainly don't use all the surface area on the plug to connect to, so I think your point about the ground surface being twice as big as the signal is somewhat lacking also. As I said, it's a metaphor, but thanks for not understanding that Yes, I've taken a look inside a TRS. I've taken it apart and rebuilt it. Strange though, how the whole surface responsible for ground is conductive.. That wouldn't make any sense, would it?

As I said, without saying so directly, it's a bad metaphor. Thanks for not understanding that.

My point about the TRS connector, which you evidently missed also, is that the contact point the signal travels through is a tiny fraction of the surface area. The rest of the surface area may as well not be there, conductive or not.

 

[Bonthouse]

Mhm, okay, so I used a bad metaphor. Evidently you can do better. I'd say, give it a shot.
I tried my best, English isn't my native language, I just tried to explain it, that's all.

And seeing you don't have anything to add to this thread, why are you posting in the first place? Just to make you feel better that you can bash someones metaphor?
Try getting that petty victory somewhere else..

 

[tenzip]

Well, no, I don't have anything else to add beyond what I posted earlier in the thread, but correcting bad information is adding something. I don't see the need for a personal attack.

As for metaphors for electrons in a wire, well, if you pictured a 10M-lane highway with 2 lanes full of bumper to bumper traffic, and the rest empty, and a 5M-lane highway on the way back, it would come closer. Still a bad metaphor.

Wire capacity for these purposes is not an issue, is the point.

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is new to me! Thanks for the info Here's metaphor to help you understand the scenario: Two dumptrucks are heading to the dumpsite, both driving on a road with two lanes, so they are driving next to eachother. They both deposit their junk at the same time, but here's the kicker. The road from the dumpsite back to where they came from only has one lane, so one has to get behind the other, making the last dumptruck arrive later than the first dumptruck. Things get mixed up because both want to arrive at the same time at their place of departure and accidents start to happen when the last dumptruck is trying to get in front of the other. Normal techflex is made out of PET, some type of plastic. Multifilament nylon is like.. 100 times softer, more flexible and nicer to look at! ps. please note that English isn't my first language. I tried to explain it the best I could

I think that tenzip was not putting on a personal attack, simply pointing out that that is not how electrical signals work. It isn't the volume of electrons, it is the direction in which the current is flowing. The physical particles only move at a couple m/s, but the electrical field has an effect that propagates through the wire at nearly the speed of light. Theoretically, using 18 gauge silver wire and a wire a few atoms wide will have no difference in the signal.

 

[Bonthouse]

Then why did I hear difference when I went from tri-braid to quad-braid with my HD25's in a DBT? How do you explain all the self-respecting cable builders using quad braids? How come every experienced DIY'er advices four wires when going stereo instead of three? I mean, it really shouldn't make a difference right? It would mean every cable maker is using way too much wire! Completely unnecessary wire?

Try explaing that one

And okay, I may have interpreted the response wrong. That's basically the problem with the internet + aspergers syndrome. I can interpret it any way I want.
I just tried to explain that when the ground wire is doing work for two signal wires, it might be handy to have a larger gauge ground wire than the signal wires. IE the lane approach.

 

[leeperry]

what kind of diff did you hear? I'll recable the damn thing tomorrow probably, so speak now or remain silent

these sites sell a big part of "dream" anyway, like this one : http://www.aloaudio.com/store/images/AKG702alo.jpg

I'm quite sure they didn't rewire the cable between the 2 cups, and I heard that it was very poorly done stock.

so 4 wires on the outside, and junk between the 2 cups?

 

[Bonthouse]

The main difference was is that the music became cleaner, instruments were more seperated, bass had more detail and the sound overall became speedier. From that point on I was a believer

 

[leeperry]

well I've got no idea how to make a quad braid, and it'd take me 3H I guess...for tri-braid I can simply put the GF at contribution

 

[Bonthouse]

The craziest braids, a tutorial made by a fellow European Head-fi'er for flat and tri-braid round

Here's one for quad braid round.
After you master it by practicing on some other wires, you can brag to your GF that you can do quad braids and she can't!
I know I did

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif The main difference was is that the music became cleaner, instruments were more seperated, bass had more detail and the sound overall became speedier. From that point on I was a believer

I know that I'll be flamed for this, and that I'm going the way of every cable skeptic out there, but no science backs up what you hear with the exception of the placebo effect. Now, that's a legitimate reason to upgrade. The placebo effect can do very real things. If it causes you to perceive your music in a more beautiful way, then power to you. However, as far as the signal goes, there is no difference due to gauge or conductor.

 

[tenzip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then why did I hear difference when I went from tri-braid to quad-braid with my HD25's in a DBT? How do you explain all the self-respecting cable builders using quad braids? How come every experienced DIY'er advices four wires when going stereo instead of three? I mean, it really shouldn't make a difference right? It would mean every cable maker is using way too much wire! Completely unnecessary wire? Try explaing that one And okay, I may have interpreted the response wrong. That's basically the problem with the internet + aspergers syndrome. I can interpret it any way I want. I just tried to explain that when the ground wire is doing work for two signal wires, it might be handy to have a larger gauge ground wire than the signal wires. IE the lane approach.

I can't explain any difference you may hear, and I decline to discuss DBT. I am happy for you that you did find a cable that is better for you. That's kind of the point of the whole thing, IMO.

The internet is a glorious but frustrating medium of communication, and I hope you will forget the little tiff as quickly as I plan to.

Cheers

 

[pdupiano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know that I'll be flamed for this, and that I'm going the way of every cable skeptic out there, but no science backs up what you hear with the exception of the placebo effect. Now, that's a legitimate reason to upgrade. The placebo effect can do very real things. If it causes you to perceive your music in a more beautiful way, then power to you. However, as far as the signal goes, there is no difference due to gauge or conductor.

Sorry mate, but there are actual scientific evidences that cause differences... Please look them up before making such blanket statements. My suggestion is first looking up the different types of noise (shot,gray, white, etc..) Next Look into metal properties, including conductivity, permeability. Next look into alloys, next look into noise canceling and EMF induction, reduction/cancelling. Then look back on your post and erase it... go ahead I'm waiting..

Quite frankly I apologize for being short, well I'm asian I can't help it... but please don't make statements of fact that you do not back up with sources etc... Trust me there's enough of that around here and its quite frankly annoying. I think it was one of the main reasons hindering leeperry from recabling his dt770's in the first place. not to be clicheic but knowledge is powa, get it, use it, but make sure you don't abuse it.

 

[Good Times]

Bont's link to the 4-wire braid is something you can pick up in around 10 seconds, so I wouldn't let the idea of a 4-braid put you off. And Techflex was too heavy for you? Sheesh really? If that's the case then you should go a 3-wire braid for weight reasons!

Hopefully you've made a decision and are happy with it, we all anxiously await the sonic results

 

[logwed]

*broken quote*

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry mate, but there are actual scientific evidences that cause differences... Please look them up before making such blanket statements. My suggestion is first looking up the different types of noise (shot,gray, white, etc..) Next Look into metal properties, including conductivity, permeability. Next look into alloys, next look into noise canceling and EMF induction, reduction/cancelling. Then look back on your post and erase it... go ahead I'm waiting..

The only assertions that I made were based on metallic properties. I said, "There is no difference in the signal based on gauge or conductor." This is true. The resistance of the cable makes no difference in the signal, only the strength of the current. The signal information contained within the signal is preserved. I said nothing of crosstalk, and purposefully so. I don't know enough about that phenomenon to be able to back it up.