[atomiccow]

Quote:

Have you ever noticed on headfi that hatchet threads aimed at manufacturers always seem to come from low post count members?

As to the knobs, look at them, some careless owner has had some sort of chemical on their fingers to make that sort of mark, it does not look like natural fading to me!

Also, I have owned one of Rays blackbirds for well over a year now, no issues or problems, the black from day one had a deep pule hue in certain lights and I have seen it on other products from him so I would say the colour at least is natural.

As to the rest, I would say looking at the pictures it was down to owner miss use/ abuse.

Already this thread is deteriorating into a hang the maker thread. Rays responses have not been rude, they have been short, you all realize he is pretty much a one man band trying to make a living right?

Sorry, I trust far more Ray on this having dealt and spoken to him on numerous occasions than some low post count member with what llooks to me like an owner abused piece of equipment.

Why should Ray have to pay for what is obvious owner abuse??

 
Uhh because whoever responded to the OP, presumably Ray, told him that the effect is "totally normal?"  Ie. Ray is not denying the problem rather acknowledging it and not taking responsibility for it.

 

[Gorillaz]

not buying from them, and as it was mentioned before, what kind of one sentence answers are that.

 

[ianmedium]

No! Ray is saying the purple hue is normal, it is. What is not normal is the obvious abuse by the previous owner as that is not natural fading, just look at it. Also, if this happened with the previous owner why did the OP buy it in the first place?

Just looked at the Hi-Rez picture, that is so obviously owner abuse and in that case I feel a manufacturer has the right to say no, no matter no questions asked that for me simply goes beyond that !

Just look at it, you can see the smudged finger prints, it is obvious abuse beyond what I would call warrantied work!

As to the colour, if you don't like the shade of Rays black don't buy Rays black! Just as if you were to line up silver cased amps from different makers you would see different hues.

No, sorry, this is very fishy and as to low post count people not having the same credence as higher post count people? Too right, the internet is full of people who I would not trust until over a much longer period of time than knowing them in person!

 

[Dubstep Girl]

Quote:

 
Uhh because whoever responded to the OP, presumably Ray, told him that the effect is "totally normal?"  Ie. Ray is not denying the problem rather acknowledging it and not taking responsibility for it.

+1

 

[Gorillaz]

still he should reply in a more professional manner, we are not talking about a $50 investment.

 

[ianmedium]

He did! Just because he did not write the guy a ten page reply does not mean it was rude. He obviously looked at the pictures and saw what I can see and replied accordingly!

 

[BRAC]

Quote:

No, sorry, this is very fishy and as to low post count people not having the same credence as higher post count people? Too right, the internet is full of people who I would not trust until over a much longer period of time than knowing them in person!

I'm more worried about the kind of business man who can turn his back on his loyal fans and customers on a whim.
 
Not too sure if I'm qualified to post here though, since I only have 100 posts and all.

 

[tokendog]

As I said before, we all have different perspectives and expectations on good customer service.  I choose not to give my money to someone who won't back their warranty, or at least explain why it's not covered, or even offer me an alternative solution to the problem.
 
We don't need a ten page explanation from Ray, but we do need him to at least seem sympathetic to a potentially unhappy customer and willing to do what he can, within his ability, to take care of the issue rather than just shrug it off as "normal" and perfectly "acceptable" because that's only TO HIM, not his customer, and he should have the business sense to realize that it's not how he sees his product, but how his CUSTOMERS see his product and his company's backing of his products.
 
There are companies that will more than happily take my money, and in return, provide amazing customer support above and beyond what is "common place" in the rest of the market.  Or at least give me the time of day and work with me if I'm trying to make the product more in line with what I want.  I'd rather give them my money and not the alternative. 
 
To each his own. You don't have the see it the same way as every one else but I appreciate this incident being brought to the attention of other like minded consumers.

 

[Gorillaz]

come on, ten pages?

 

[tokendog]

I guess my perspective comes from the fact that I own a business and would never treat one of my customers this way.  I understand what I can and can not do and remain financially viable but that is not my customer's fault.  It is a fault of my own and I should at least attempt to make sure that I do what I can to make them happy - I am always trying to improve my solutions for my customers so the next time it occurs I have a better and more viable option to both parties.
 
In this case, I would have found a way to make the knobs available for purchase - if it wasn't something I absolutely 100% could not warranty myself and remain profitable, at least I could find a way to make it so my customers could still make the product be in the condition that they wanted it to be in.

 

[CorvetteGarage]

Oh brother is right. 
 
ianmedium-  
I may be a low post count member here, but Im not new to the Audio scene.
Im a 10+ year member on Audiogon with 100 % feedback for 210 transactions.  Member id-  corvette_tuner
On eBay, 14+ year member with 100 % feedback for 3178 transactions.  Member id-  corvettegarage
 
I suggest you check me out.  I dont play games.  I take my audio hobby and my Corvette parts business very seriously.
 
Slow down and re-read my post/s.  I advised the purple hue and fading issue on the volume knob was also under the volume trim ring, an area that CANNOT be touched by fingers or cleaning unless the trim ring is removed.  Its obvious, just a case of bad anodizing.
 
The whole reason for posting the experience was not because of the knob issue per say, but because of the attitude of Ray and RSA. 

 

[tokendog]

Quote:

Oh brother is right. 
 
meat01- 
I may be a low post count member here, but Im not new to the Audio scene.
Im a 10+ year member on Audiogon with 100 % feedback for 210 transactions.  Member id-  corvette_tuner
On eBay, 14+ year member with 100 % feedback for 3178 transactions.  Member id-  corvettegarage
 
I suggest you check me out.  I dont paly games.  I take my audio hobby and my Corvette parts business very seriously.
 
Slow down and re-read my post/s.  I advised the purple hue and fading issue on the volume knob was also under the volume trim ring, an area that CANNOT be touched by fingers or cleaning unless the trim ring is removed.  Its obvious, just a case of bad anodizing.
 
The whole reason for posting the experience was not because of the knob issue per say, but because of the attitude of Ray and RSA. 

 
Precisely.  It's now more about how he handled it versus the actual issue with the product.

 

[Radio_head]

Primary issue - Manufacturer not standing by an explicit warranty.  If there was a reason for him not to stand by this warranty (ie suspected negligence or if he believes someone to be a fourth owner as examples), then he should explicitly say so.  Now, warranties are meant to cover anything wrong with the amp.  According to Ray's statement, it is normal for the knobs to discolour like in the picture (which he was sent), thus ruling out chemicals or other owner negligence issues.  If it is normal... then the warranty needn't cover it as he does not consider such a result a defect.  
 
So he's in a bit of a catch-22 here - either
1) It's normal and not covered by warranty due to its normalcy - but in this case he did a shoddy job of anodizing and the aesthetics (which are definitely part of the appeal with RSA products) should always be brought up in that case for prospective buyers (eg "should I buy a darkstar or a X amp?"  "The Darkstar looks nice now but the honking knobs will slowly discoulour and there's nothing you can do about it.")
2) It's "normal" but that's because of shoddy anodizing that he acknowledges as being defective and covers with warranty.  In that case, he was deliberately avoiding giving warranty service which is inexcusable.
 
As others have mentioned, the issue is not "freaking knobs for goshssakes", but the issue behind that - something is wrong, and he refused to honor warranty.  Well, either that or his product just naturally degrades visually over time which is apparently totally normal in his eyes.  Really hot amps do sometimes purple (one of the firstwatt amps' heat sinks in particular comes to mind, but thats taking a lot of heat) but if this is true then it should be a consideration when purchasing and should be a caveat on the item page in my opinion.
 
Secondary issue - his brusque, terse answers and eventual radio silence.  One could argue about whether it comes off as genuinely rude, but it certainly does not inspire confidence (and I've met him a few times, always seems very nice in person.  Then again, so do most vendors.)
 
 
Is this whole thread an overreaction?  I would say not.  The customer tried to settle it with the vendor but failed, and his post seems very reasonable for the situation he was in.  The issue, as has been mentioned, is also larger than how some sympathetic parties seem to be framing it.  

 

[zeinharis]

^^^^
 
X2, This!

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Have you ever noticed on headfi that hatchet threads aimed at manufacturers always seem to come from low post count members?

As to the knobs, look at them, some careless owner has had some sort of chemical on their fingers to make that sort of mark, it does not look like natural fading to me!

Also, I have owned one of Rays blackbirds for well over a year now, no issues or problems, the black from day one had a deep pule hue in certain lights and I have seen it on other products from him so I would say the colour at least is natural.

As to the rest, I would say looking at the pictures it was down to owner miss use/ abuse.

Already this thread is deteriorating into a hang the maker thread. Rays responses have not been rude, they have been short, you all realize he is pretty much a one man band trying to make a living right?

Sorry, I trust far more Ray on this having dealt and spoken to him on numerous occasions than some low post count member with what llooks to me like an owner abused piece of equipment.

Why should Ray have to pay for what is obvious owner abuse??

 
Low post count ? Nope - not this little black duck, but I don't own any of Ray's amps and I expect I never will. 
 
Mate, you've been here longer than I have, and I expect you've seen Ray criticised before - there is another forum where each of his designs is derided as being wildly overpriced for the level of engineering and the parts used, but there are many longtime Head-Fiers who swear by his amps. Make of it what you will,but RSA remains a 'name brand' well beyond Head-Fi's little world, including some glowing reviews of his pre-amps. 
 
The OP's complaints re Ray's terse, single sentence responses are nothing new to me. Years ago, I recall reading something from someone who had emailed Ray repeatedly and received zero response to requests for an update on the amp build he had commissioned. The advice given at the time was to phone Ray as his email often backed up while he worked on amps, and someone added that they had an hour long conversation with Ray (little more than shooting the breeze about amps) the previous day.
 
Personally, if I was going to spend that kind of money on an amp, and I was patient (which I'm not), I'd be talking to Justin at Headamp, but that's just me. You will also find complaints here and there about the time it takes Justin to build an amp, but I have yet to see a complaint about the build quality of the end result. Try to find a secondhand GS-1 or Gilmore Lite - if you can find one, buy the thing and check out the workmanship. Justin has hi-res photos of the internals of all his amps on the site, but the best advertisements come from those who own his amps. No shortage of feedback from those guys, and I have yet to see a single complaint re his workmanship - not one.
 
End of the day, the OP got his knobs anodised and we've all learnt a great deal. Peace.
 
estreeter