[LFF]

Quote:

I would not villify the OP, he was reasonable, courteous, is not trying to incite a lynch mob in any way despite your portrayal of the situation, and actually knows a thing or three about anodizing due to his business.  His posts are a form of public service announcement - and Ray is welcome to make his own. 
 
These types of threads tend to bring all those with irrational hatred and irrational love out of the woodwork.  

Spot on...which is why I think we should wait to see Mr. Samuel's official response.
 
Anything up until that point is just speculation. Give the guy some time.

 

[K_19]

I would not villify the OP, he was reasonable, courteous, is not trying to incite a lynch mob in any way despite your portrayal of the situation, and actually knows a thing or three about anodizing due to his business.  His posts are a form of public service announcement - and Ray is welcome to make his own. 

These types of threads tend to bring all those with irrational hatred and irrational love out of the woodwork.  

+1.

 

[meat01]

Quote:

I still say what you show is largely down to abuse. if it was like this before you purchased it and it worried you so much A, why did you go ahead with the purchase and B, why did you not contact Ray before purchase to ascertain if you could indeed be covered by his warranty?

I know before I dropped that sort of money on a second hand and obviously abused piece of kit I would make sure the damage was in fact covered. And as I said, looking at the rest of your picture the shading looks exactly like mine new.

 
You still don't get it.  There was no abuse.
 

Warranty

THE EMMELINE PRODUCTS are warranted for THREE YEARS from the date of purchase. The warranty is transferable to a second and third owners with no questions asked.
 
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/warranty
 
What part of this are you not understanding?

 

[ianmedium]

I read that as no questions asked about the transfer of the warranty, not the item!

Anyway, as LFF quite rightly said I shall bow out until Ray comments

 

[DefQon]

This thread is going anywhere, I'm sure Ray will chime in sometime soon and deal the problems present in this thread personally with the OP. In before thread get's closed down.

 

[deniall83]

Interested to see what happens here... I too will not be buying any RSA products in the future.

 

[Theogenes]

I tend to be a level-headed guy when it comes to this type of thing. We have heard only one side of the story, and it's quite easy (and depressingly common) for internet lynch mobs to launch salvos from the comfort of their anonymous keyboards. So I look forward to hearing from Ray (I can hardly doubt he knows of the thread by now, or at the very least will very soon) to see if there are extenuating circumstances that bring a new context to the matter. 
 
That said, I have purchased an iBasso D6, Apex Glacier, and Leckerton UHA-6S mkII (technically a gift, but at my direction) for my mobile setup, and have considered the Pico DAC/amp and RSA Intruder as well. I have also recently purchased an AMB M3 amp as a way to determine if I would be interested in a Beta 22 as my end-game amp, and the DarkStar was on my list. Unless and until there is a satisfactory response from Ray about this matter, I will refrain from purchasing any of his products, new or used, as I see them as potentially far more trouble than they're worth. 
 
As an aside from someone without any axe to grind in this particular matter, I would say that Radio_Head's posts have been particularly insightful, and the two people attempting to defend RSA have done a particularly poor job of doing so. Unless someone has a factual input that is directly applicable to the matter at hand, I would recommend that anyone concerned about Ray's reputation contact him and encourage him to respond here forthwith and cease the koolaid-y posts that forgo logic for specious arguments and unreasonable analogies. All IMO, naturally. 
 
Again, I look forward to hearing Ray's side of things, and for his sake hope he does so soon. 

 

[Ray Samuels]

I am so surprised to see this long thread going on as I have never known it existed until today I did a search for DarkStar then I was shocked.
I have been in business for almost 10 years & had done my job the best I know how. I have given warranty for all my amps 3 years some life time but have never ever charged any service needed, a penny, for amps that were made 10 years ago.
All I ask is the shipping fee but parts & labor are free of charge. I do charge for batteries once passes 1 year warranty but labor again is free. I have up-graded many amps in the past years & charged nothing to the customer but the shipping fee, parts & labor are always free.
I have given the best I can service to all my customers & spend hours on the phone with them with out dis respecting any one who must have called so many times.
My e-mails have been replied to by my son who was on spring vacation from college, He left yesterday back to school. He did the writing of the orders & answered all the e-mails as this was one way to pay him and for me to take a little break away from work.
All what the customer has to do if they have a problem to call me & leave a message & I would have returned the call back.
Yes the chassis of the darkStar are very expensive, they are CNCed from solid aluminum. They come as a complete full chassis. But having only the knobs being discolored is an easy job. they could have been shipped back to the anodizer & redone.
I am sure when that DarkStar was shipped it was perfect other wise I would have rejected it. But what happened some times if the chassis sits close to some kind of a heat source it will discolor
or if cleaned with some cleaners it might do that also. I inspect every amp leaving our place before shipping it & i know I would have rejected it if it was in that condition. I really wish even the original owner of the DarkStar would have called me I would have taken care of it. There were many mistakes done in the last two weeks & I am trying to correct all of them but this thread I have just found on head-fi.
I can't believe I have been crucified when all what is needed one phone call. I will be happy to pay the new owner of the DarkStar the cost of the anodizing & warranty his amp for as long as I live.
Ray Samuels 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

This thread is going anywhere, I'm sure Ray will chime in sometime soon and deal the problems present in this thread personally with the OP. In before thread get's closed down.

 
He doesnt seem to have made it a priority - has anyone had any contact with Ray over the last day or two ? For all we know, he is fishing in Mexico and blissfully unaware of this thread 
 
(half his luck, IMO)

 

[Theogenes]

Quote:

I am so surprised to see this long thread going on as I have never known it existed until today I did a search for DarkStar then I was shocked.
I have been in business for almost 10 years & had done my job the best I know how. I have given warranty for all my amps 3 years some life time but have never ever charged any service needed, a penny, for amps that were made 10 years ago.
All I ask is the shipping fee but parts & labor are free of charge. I do charge for batteries once passes 1 year warranty but labor again is free. I have up-graded many amps in the past years & charged nothing to the customer but the shipping fee, parts & labor are always free.
I have given the best I can service to all my customers & spend hours on the phone with them with out dis respecting any one who must have called so many times.
My e-mails have been replied to by my son who was on spring vacation from college, He left yesterday back to school. He did the writing of the orders & answered all the e-mails as this was one way to pay him and for me to take a little break away from work.
All what the customer has to do if they have a problem to call me & leave a message & I would have returned the call back.
Yes the chassis of the darkStar are very expensive, they are CNCed from solid aluminum. They come as a complete full chassis. But having only the knobs being discolored is an easy job. they could have been shipped back to the anodizer & redone.
I am sure when that DarkStar was shipped it was perfect other wise I would have rejected it. But what happened some times if the chassis sits close to some kind of a heat source it will discolor
or if cleaned with some cleaners it might do that also. I inspect every amp leaving our place before shipping it & i know I would have rejected it if it was in that condition. I really wish even the original owner of the DarkStar would have called me I would have taken care of it. There were many mistakes done in the last two weeks & I am trying to correct all of them but this thread I have just found on head-fi.
I can't believe I have been crucified when all what is needed one phone call. I will be happy to pay the new owner of the DarkStar the cost of the anodizing & warranty his amp for as long as I live.
Ray Samuels 

 
Ray, thank you for your reply. I can't speak for others here, but I personally hope you don't take this as a crucifixion, but a simple outpouring of concern about a potential issue. I have to ask: why was it unreasonable for him to email instead of call? I would have done the same, and he had no way of knowing who was on the other end of the email-- simply that they represented you and your company. 
 
I think you make beautiful gear, and highly recommended at that. I look forward to seeing the final resolution to the OP's issue. 
 
EDIT: I do think it's good that the issue is being handled so decisively now that you're involved. This is kind of what I was hoping to see, to be honest. 

 

[Maxvla]

Would be interested to hear more about it's life before you bought it.

I work in a violin shop and deal with multi-thousand dollar instruments daily. Occasionally I see instruments that are brought into my shop with severe varnish damage, or the beginnings of it. Violins, of course, are items that are handled in normal use and are susceptible to anything the wielder's hands have on them. The varnish on most instruments is alcohol based, so things like hand sanitizer, lotion, aloe, etc will dissolve the finish. The owners show me the instrument and are either mad or confused, some thinking we sold a badly varnished instrument, some just having no idea what happened. I ask if they use the previously mentioned products often and invariably they do and the 'mystery' is solved. We do our best to fix the varnish (at their expense) and they are on their way. An expensive (and usually not entirely repairable) lesson.

I don't know anything about metals or anodizing but perhaps this could have been the case with these knobs.

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

I am so surprised to see this long thread going on as I have never known it existed until today I did a search for DarkStar then I was shocked.
I have been in business for almost 10 years & had done my job the best I know how. I have given warranty for all my amps 3 years some life time but have never ever charged any service needed, a penny, for amps that were made 10 years ago.
All I ask is the shipping fee but parts & labor are free of charge. I do charge for batteries once passes 1 year warranty but labor again is free. I have up-graded many amps in the past years & charged nothing to the customer but the shipping fee, parts & labor are always free.
I have given the best I can service to all my customers & spend hours on the phone with them with out dis respecting any one who must have called so many times.
My e-mails have been replied to by my son who was on spring vacation from college, He left yesterday back to school. He did the writing of the orders & answered all the e-mails as this was one way to pay him and for me to take a little break away from work.
All what the customer has to do if they have a problem to call me & leave a message & I would have returned the call back.
Yes the chassis of the darkStar are very expensive, they are CNCed from solid aluminum. They come as a complete full chassis. But having only the knobs being discolored is an easy job. they could have been shipped back to the anodizer & redone.
I am sure when that DarkStar was shipped it was perfect other wise I would have rejected it. But what happened some times if the chassis sits close to some kind of a heat source it will discolor
or if cleaned with some cleaners it might do that also. I inspect every amp leaving our place before shipping it & i know I would have rejected it if it was in that condition. I really wish even the original owner of the DarkStar would have called me I would have taken care of it. There were many mistakes done in the last two weeks & I am trying to correct all of them but this thread I have just found on head-fi.
I can't believe I have been crucified when all what is needed one phone call. I will be happy to pay the new owner of the DarkStar the cost of the anodizing & warranty his amp for as long as I live.
Ray Samuels 

Well there's your problem. It's a rare occasion when the children have the same passion for the company that their parents built. Believe me, I know... I'm sorry you had to go through all this. I'm guessing a little customer service training is in order or a pink slip... If your son hasn't seen this thread (I'm sure he has) then it would probably be a good thing for him to see all the chaos he caused. 

 

[audionewbi]

Quote:

Would be interested to hear more about it's life before you bought it.

I work in a violin shop and deal with multi-thousand dollar instruments daily. Occasionally I see instruments that are brought into my shop with severe varnish damage, or the beginnings of it. Violins, of course, are items that are handled in normal use and are susceptible to anything the wielder's hands have on them. The varnish on most instruments is alcohol based, so things like hand sanitizer, lotion, aloe, etc will dissolve the finish. The owners show me the instrument and are either mad or confused, some thinking we sold a badly varnished instrument, some just having no idea what happened. I ask if they use the previously mentioned products often and invariably they do and the 'mystery' is solved. We do our best to fix the varnish (at their expense) and they are on their way. An expensive (and usually not entirely repairable) lesson.

I don't know anything about metals or anodizing but perhaps this could have been the case with these knobs.

In such cases wouldn't it be wise the manufacturer to have a handling disclosure if the  items is going to be this susceptible for what is generally an every day product that simply we cannot avoid? 

A little recommended handling guide might go a long way, the last thing I want to hear as a consumer is "well you did not use it right?" 

 

[nelamvr6]

Ray, I think it's time for a word with your son.
 
I'm sure he has a lot of great qualities, but he sucks at customer service.

 

[C.C.S.]

Quote:

I am so surprised to see this long thread going on as I have never known it existed until today I did a search for DarkStar then I was shocked.
I have been in business for almost 10 years & had done my job the best I know how. I have given warranty for all my amps 3 years some life time but have never ever charged any service needed, a penny, for amps that were made 10 years ago.
All I ask is the shipping fee but parts & labor are free of charge. I do charge for batteries once passes 1 year warranty but labor again is free. I have up-graded many amps in the past years & charged nothing to the customer but the shipping fee, parts & labor are always free.
I have given the best I can service to all my customers & spend hours on the phone with them with out dis respecting any one who must have called so many times.
My e-mails have been replied to by my son who was on spring vacation from college, He left yesterday back to school. He did the writing of the orders & answered all the e-mails as this was one way to pay him and for me to take a little break away from work.
All what the customer has to do if they have a problem to call me & leave a message & I would have returned the call back.
Yes the chassis of the darkStar are very expensive, they are CNCed from solid aluminum. They come as a complete full chassis. But having only the knobs being discolored is an easy job. they could have been shipped back to the anodizer & redone.
I am sure when that DarkStar was shipped it was perfect other wise I would have rejected it. But what happened some times if the chassis sits close to some kind of a heat source it will discolor
or if cleaned with some cleaners it might do that also. I inspect every amp leaving our place before shipping it & i know I would have rejected it if it was in that condition. I really wish even the original owner of the DarkStar would have called me I would have taken care of it. There were many mistakes done in the last two weeks & I am trying to correct all of them but this thread I have just found on head-fi.
I can't believe I have been crucified when all what is needed one phone call. I will be happy to pay the new owner of the DarkStar the cost of the anodizing & warranty his amp for as long as I live.
Ray Samuels 

 
I apologize if I may have come off a bit too harsh when I replied to the thread. I still believe that the problem was not handled properly, but I feel better knowing that you were not the one who was conducting your business in such a manner. I hope, and believe, that you will do the right thing for your customers and ensure that they are satisfied.
 
I hope that either you or OP will post again in this thread after the issue has been resolved so that we may have a complete record of this event. Thank you for visiting the thread and sharing your side of the story.