[Lord Chaos]

I find rap sonically irritating. I don't like repetition. Call it a personal quirk, but it will drive me from the room, as will television for the same reason.

That said, I've heard some rap that I thought was well done. It didn't drive me away quite so quickly.

 

[vo328]

I think rap is a valid musical art form but I do not listen to it primarily. I really depends on my mood...

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Actual /img/forum/go_quote.gif And for people who differentiate between hip-hop and rap, what exactly do you mean? I've heard stuff like 'hip-hop is more focused on beats' and stuff like that, but the rap vs hip-hop debate still comes off like comic book vs. graphic novel to me. Just because slight variations doesn't mean they are totally different genres, right? Look at how much crazy stuff is still classified as 'rock' or 'jazz.'

IMO, rap refers only to the vocal delivery, not the musical styling at all. Hip-hop is a musical styling, and really isn't related to vocal styling, although rap vocals are the vast majority of hip-hop music (correct me if I'm wrong).

The comic book/graphic novel debate is for the snooty readers of graphic novels that don't want to admit they read comic books

 

[bigshot]

I haven't found a lot of rap music that I find interesting, but Snoop Dogg's Doggy Style is one of the best albums I've heard in a decade.

None of the poll choices apply to me.

I'm in the...

I don't like much rap, but I wouldn't write it off completely

camp.

See ya
Steve

 

[Rempert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO, rap refers only to the vocal delivery, not the musical styling at all. Hip-hop is a musical styling, and really isn't related to vocal styling, although rap vocals are the vast majority of hip-hop music (correct me if I'm wrong).

Musically speaking, rap is an element of hip-hop. Breakbeat is also. I don't know if you can really distinguish there. If some R&B singer sings over a sparse beat by DJ Whatever, that song clearly has a hip-hop influence, but if some punk rocker decides to rap the verses to a song, surely there is also a hip-hop influence there too.

Culturally speaking, people call hip-hop they like "hip-hop" and hip-hop they don't "rap". This is why you must be very careful when criticizing "hip-hop", because it is good by definition and therefor any criticism of it is paradoxical heresy. However if you criticize rap, these people will be there to make sure you know about "real hip-hop" which is so much better than this "rap" you have been exposed to.

 

[Borat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert /img/forum/go_quote.gif Culturally speaking, people call hip-hop they like "hip-hop" and hip-hop they don't "rap". This is why you must be very careful when criticizing "hip-hop", because it is good by definition and therefor any criticism of it is paradoxical heresy. However if you criticize rap, these people will be there to make sure you know about "real hip-hop" which is so much better than this "rap" you have been exposed to.

Word!

It's totally ridiculous that people do this. You can't separate a genre by artists that are good and bad. Technically, rapping is the vocal style utilized in hip-hop music. But generally, when you speak about "rap music" or "hip-hop music" you are referring to the same thing. Any attempt to separate the two is just silly semantics. Whether one falls into "underground", "commercial", "gangsta" or "conscious hip-hop" or whatever it's still rap/hip-hop music. I guess you could call those sub-genres, but then you're just getting more ridiculous.

You tend to see people doing this because they try so hard to hold on to what they remember hip-hop music being in the earlier days. But that was like 20 years ago and now it's probably the most popular genre in the world. With that, you are going to get a bunch of bad acts. That goes with the territory when something expands and you get more people trying their hand at it. It's not an indictment on the entire art form.

 

[Inkmo]

man, there isn't an option up there I can vote on. I need something between #1 and #2. I like hip-hop, but it doesn't come close to comprising a majority of my collection or tastes. I dig the 'Planets, Jurassic 5, Blackalicious, Aesop Rock... Also, I like the nerdcore stuff like MC Frontalot and Optimus Rhyme. All of these are real music to me. I don't get the gangsta stuff, but that I just categorize as 'kids these days' music right along with the indie bands I don't like.

Orpheus. I wonder if you heard something like "Blazing Arrow" whether you'd revise your opinion. Sorry if you already have. I'm not making a 'well, maybe you haven't heard the right thing' argument; I honestly think it is a really good album.

 

[flamerz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif The poll is about rap, not hip-hop, they are not the same thing. Instrumental hip-hop is not rap. I like a great deal of hip-hop beats, for instance, but once someone "raps" over it, I tune out. If someone sings over hip-hop (ala modern R&B), it isn't rap, either. The defenders of hip-hop ruin their own argument. On one hand, they try so hard to tell everyone about all the sub-genres and how you can't judge the entire spectrum by the mainstream, but then tie them together themselves. Rap is purely vocal delivery. Has nothing to do with beats. Would you classify your own dislikes, of country, for instance, as a misguided close-mindedness, as you suggested is the case with people who hate rap? Yet another close-minded comment. I've seen threads (not particularly here on this forum) where people bash all forms of rock/metal, and while the defenders usually resort to juvenile insults, rarely do they slap the close-minded tag on people. Why is that?

It seems that you've misunderstood the intentions of my post. I respect other genres of music. I feel that some tracks of the genre are pleasurable to me, but the majority does nothing at all for me. Nevertheless, you don't see me constantly posting CLASSICAL MUSIC SUCKS all over the forum, as I respect the opinions of other members. It's to those people that my post was intended for. The end was for anybody interested.

As for the other parts of your post, I disagree. There's nothing else to it, really. Yes, there are rhymes and a beat in a song, but it's one song. It's classified as rap music, not just rap.

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I suppose the good old heartland US of A is very tolerant of the gothic culture according to you, or does that fall into the culture of people of a "certain skin color"? "Wigger" fits into the same category as "Tom", does it not? The same alleged racist sentiments that cause a hatred of rap music is, on the flip side, the reason for people of a "certain skin color"'s hatred of country music, no? Rap is not anywhere near as hated in the white community as people would like to think it is. If it was, it wouldn't enjoy a 10th of the popularity it does. No question, there are many who hate rap music for racist reasons, but just as many hate it for many other reasons not at all related. Continually throwing in the "racism" tag into the equation is a crutch. Rap music is hated by many simply because it is the genre that spits out the largest (by far at that) amount of untalented garbage that one can loosely label "music". The talented artists are the needle in the haystack.

rock brings to mind mindless garbage done the same over and over... and has had more years to burn than rap/hip-hop. 'musicians' who can play 3 chords and yell, but then, im no rock fan other than a few biggies.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

I suggest that one take a look at this article:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=21243

Written by an African-American jazz musician the article treads into areas that I mostly agree with but can not openly express because I'm a 50+ year old white guy. In other words, this article is my viewpoint.

 

[tjkurita]

Here's a quote from another "Korner" where he is arguing for free speech in one sentence and then arguing against 50 cent saying what he says in the next.

"First of all, there were some people who objected to my use of profanity. Maybe I shouldn't have used it in the title. I'm sorry, but almost all of my favorite comedians use a ton of profanity and nobody seems to care when they do it! Perhaps if my job description were "jazz/classical pianist/comedian" no one would have even noticed. I really do not feel a need to censor my speech. This is still America, isn't it? (Oops! I forgot! Dubya- or should I say Dumbya - is still in power! This isn't America anymore!) Anyway, even though I really don't want to, I will yield to the Almighty God of Political Correctness and keep it clean. Why can Chris Rock use all the foul language he wants to when he rants about something, yet some people tell me that I should tone it down? I guess when you're rich and famous you can say whatever the **** you want and nobody gives a ****!

There were also a few people who were bugged because they thought that I was advocating shooting 50Cent and Eminem and wishing for their death. There's a little thing called satire. Some of you may have heard of it. I was only making a joke. I repeat: I WAS ONLY MAKING A JOKE!!!!! I happen to have a really sick sense of humor and I feel no need to apologize for it. So just shoot me! Hey! I just advocated shooting me! I really need to respond to myself for saying that!(If you thought that what I said was sick or over the top,maybe you should watch South Park sometime. Nuff said!)

Lastly, there was one comment that suggested that I was only mad at 50Cent because I was jealous and envious of his money. Whoever said this is a pinhead! Come on,be honest! Who wouldn't want to have that kind of money? Why do people spend so much money on lottery tickets? I'm mad as hell at 50Cent because of his negative influence on our society and our youth. I couldn't care less about having his houses, his cars , or his groupies. (Wait a minute! Okay! He can send some of the groupies over!)"

First, I think it's clear that he IS bitter about being a struggling musician when people who he thinks are talent-less are rich and famous.

Second, if his defense for his own words is free speech, that defense should also apply to 50 cent and to anyone else. I'm not using the free speech argument as a default here. People who censor themselves and don't mind being censored can advocate censorship all they want for all I care. As long as they don't legislate it.

I don't like 50 cent, but he can say what he wants. My favorite genre of music is jazz by far. By a long, long margin. But one of my favorite things about music is that it allows for constant interaction between genres. For example. The idea that Charlie Christian is a musical hero for just about any guitarist who has ever heard him is a great thing to me. When I imagine a guitarist for a white-supremacist band saying to one of his bandmates in confidence: "boy, that Charlie Christian could really burn on the guitar!" it makes me think there is good in the world and that good can come from music. I KNOW there must be at least one bigot in the world who has had his/her prejudice softened or eliminated because of a great musician (whatever race or creed). It isn't a white-black issue (I am referring to Drew's article here). It is a musical open-ness issue. When people don't give music (any kind of music) a chance, it kills it.

I'm not saying that people are not entitled to their opinions. That's not what I am saying at all. For example, I think Kenny G is a disgrace, and Rod Steward singing jazz standards makes me want to puke. I also really dislike Wynton Marsalis because I think he is a pedantic ass.

I'm saying that good music is good music and I'm not sure how or why someone would completely write off an entire GENRE of music.

This argument is getting a little tiresome. I want to be clear for my own peace of mind. I don't assume people who hate rap/hip hop are racist. I don't assume it is a cultural aversion or has anything to do with the content. To be honest, hatred and negativity is not the first thing I expect from people. Especially when it comes to music. So I am kind of caught off guard by the vocal dislike of rap music demonstrated here.

I wonder if it isn't a different issue that is being discussed. It seems like "Pop" music is the big culprit, rather than an entire genre. I don't have much of an answer for that. The lowest common denominator is generally lacking in artistic merit. But sometimes the good stuff is good to a lot of people.

I don't know. Who cares? I'm going to go listen to New Order, followed by Tony Rice, followed by John Coltrane, followed by Bjork, followed by Wagner, followed by The Gza.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, you can read dates, kudos to you...

Gee, thanks for the kind words, but my post had to do with new posts attacking the OP who is long gone. DUH!

edit: My thoughts on the subject: I personally don't like the bling,bling hardcore rap because it lacks substance and longetivity. Last night I spent some time watching the alanis morissette "my humps" cover then decided to hear the original version by black eyed peas and I actually enjoyed it. From there I checked out an outkast video and enjoyed it as well. Personally, i'm a metal head but I'm open-minded enough to try something new nowadays. It can't hurt. I think i'll give the BEP a shot and check out their albums.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif rock brings to mind mindless garbage done the same over and over... and has had more years to burn than rap/hip-hop. 'musicians' who can play 3 chords and yell, but then, im no rock fan other than a few biggies.

I, quite frankly, agree with you.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suggest that one take a look at this article: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=21243 Written by an African-American jazz musician the article treads into areas that I mostly agree with but can not openly express because I'm a 50+ year old white guy. In other words, this article is my viewpoint.

Great article and one that I definitely agree with!

 

[Coltrane]

The Kenny Drew article is only addressing 'popular' music, and a few rap artists. Jazz is not dead because Boney James and Kenny G are the most popular jazzmen, rap is not garbage because 50 Cent sells alot of cds. There is no relationship between popularity and quality, obviously. Kenny Drew's real problems are with the capitalist structure in place and the record companies profit only considerations when it comes to the marketing of music. He comes off as little more than a cranky old man wishing for a long since gone era.

What happened to popular black music? Businessmen are now in control of the music business, not music fans.

As for 50 Cent and P Diddy, there is not doubt that they are little more than modern day minstrel shows. Except this time we dont need the blackface, because they are willing to do it on their own. They are no doubt an extreme embarrassment to their culture, and to the world as a whole. They have set back race relations 50 years. But, they do not represent in any way the current state of the art in rap music. Apparently, no matter how often this is stated people choose to ignore it.