[jamington2004]

The bass quality is indeed quite good, it is just not quite plentiful.

Yes, EQ is a tool to help address the SR1a shortcoming, and it is only a bandaid.
I had the pleasure of playing with a Pultec EQ.

I never found the Shure system to be anything special -- not to discredit your experience just to cross-reference paths and there-in expectations. However, if you are finding enjoyment, so much the better.

I absolutely agree solely listening with one's own ears is the way.

I would only add there are levels to this game.

Well yes agreed on the Shures now I’ve heard the RAAL

I am intrigued though as to why you feel EQ is only a band aid / why others think it’s not an option.... when you are trying to achieve exactly the same thing in principle (adjust the sound to your taste) by trying different amps, or cables / DACS / streamers in other peoples cases)?

The RME ADI 2 DAC-2 FS manual is a really good read - just for the commentary alone, about how EQ fell out of favour, but there is no reason for it to have done so.

I am as guilty as anyone in the past about not wanting to buy equipment with tone controls, and not wanting to use EQ. Until I stumbled across room correction and it opened my ears and eyes to the fact that it can be a good a really good thing when the need is there.

I generally have found I don’t like to use on the fly EQ anyway - but more because it drives me mad having the option to tweak all the time, and then convince myself which sounds better. In fact with the RAAL now I generally prefer it flat anyway, and push the drivers closer to the ears for fuller bass. But i do reach for the bass knob for a couple of dB lift from 85hz occasionally

Anyway - a whole huge topic that’s been discussed a million times I am sure, and each to their own. I’m just honestly interested in your thoughts while it’s being discussed for the RAALs specifically

 

[paradoxper]

Well yes agreed on the Shures now I’ve heard the RAAL

I am intrigued though as to why you feel EQ is only a band aid / why others think it’s not an option.... when you are trying to achieve exactly the same thing in principle (adjust the sound to your taste) by trying different amps, or cables / DACS / streamers in other peoples cases)?

The RME ADI 2 DAC-2 FS manual is a really good read - just for the commentary alone, about how EQ fell out of favour, but there is no reason for it to have done so.

I am as guilty as anyone in the past about not wanting to buy equipment with tone controls, and not wanting to use EQ. Until I stumbled across room correction and it opened my ears and eyes to the fact that it can be a good a really good thing when the need is there.

I generally have found I don’t like to use on the fly EQ anyway - but more because it drives me mad having the option to tweak all the time, and then convince myself which sounds better. In fact with the RAAL now I generally prefer it flat anyway, and push the drivers closer to the ears for fuller bass. But i do reach for the bass knob for a couple of dB lift from 85hz occasionally

Anyway - a whole huge topic that’s been discussed a million times I am sure, and each to their own. I’m just honestly interested in your thoughts while it’s being discussed for the RAALs specifically

Definitely a jump in reference.

I'm not of the EQ is bad camp. I'd question active/passive to start. The main concern with EQ is a battle of noise. Yes, sure, out of the box the SR1a leaves much more to desire that EQ can help address and fill out for a more balanced sound but not entirely fix.
And more to the point, an argument of the SR1a being difficult to drive and with levels of components in between the driver and direct amplification and there-in exploration of the bottleneck; with the costs-no-object uberamp > direct drive: over spec power supply, transformer, output device, heatsinking, I'm looking to exploit the SR1a to its fullest I can.
So not exactly just frequency response, I'm also looking at distortion, soundstage, dynamics -- similar to STAX energizer vs "direct drive."
This, not accounting for variability of driver angle which influences the response a whole lot.

And I've made it rather clear, I don't think the pursuit will pan out. In that, I think we're trying to push the driver past its limit. In doing so, specific to bass response and a bottoming out effect due to the limited excursion. This, in the end, is THE bottleneck.

 

[jp11801]

agreed while the driver may be the bottleneck isn't that the case for all headphones.
The RAAL represents at least to me the biggest technical advance in personal audio sound in a decade

 

[FLTWS]

Well yes agreed on the Shures now I’ve heard the RAAL

I am intrigued though as to why you feel EQ is only a band aid / why others think it’s not an option.... when you are trying to achieve exactly the same thing in principle (adjust the sound to your taste) by trying different amps, or cables / DACS / streamers in other peoples cases)?

The RME ADI 2 DAC-2 FS manual is a really good read - just for the commentary alone, about how EQ fell out of favour, but there is no reason for it to have done so.

I am as guilty as anyone in the past about not wanting to buy equipment with tone controls, and not wanting to use EQ. Until I stumbled across room correction and it opened my ears and eyes to the fact that it can be a good a really good thing when the need is there.

I generally have found I don’t like to use on the fly EQ anyway - but more because it drives me mad having the option to tweak all the time, and then convince myself which sounds better. In fact with the RAAL now I generally prefer it flat anyway, and push the drivers closer to the ears for fuller bass. But i do reach for the bass knob for a couple of dB lift from 85hz occasionally

Anyway - a whole huge topic that’s been discussed a million times I am sure, and each to their own. I’m just honestly interested in your thoughts while it’s being discussed for the RAALs specifically

Just my thoughts, and not just regarding the SR1a specifically;

The fact that this or that individual will not EQ, and that this or that individual can't listen without it, and sometimes an individual does and sometimes doesn't use EQ, and that some say high powered amp drive with the interface is required, and others that a direct drive amp is the answer, or that that direct drive amp must have tubes...

I would not listen to any collection of sources, boxes, transducers and wires just because others believe it is the best way by any means of measurement or listening if I didn't get enough satisfaction to brings me back again and again wanting to listen. I need to satisfy the music listener in me first and foremost.

Because I'm also a hobbyist (audiophile?) I keep in the game investigating, trying new things, questing for an unobtainable Grail. (But that does keep me off the streets and out of trouble).

But some things you just have to figure out for yourself, come to your own conclusions on, and have the convictions of your own decisions. Sometimes you find you've spent your money well, sometimes there is disappointment. And in some instances what we like now may not be what we like a year from now. That's life. And the ability to get an adequate audition before making purchase decisions (especially in the current environment) is always an impediment. But the hobbyist in me keeps me questing.

When I crave the absolute truth in listening, I buy concert tickets and go live.

Otherwise I just except the various shortcomings of any reproduction system I've ever experienced (and that's a lot over 50 years, some I could afford, some I could never afford) so I can listen to what I want, when I want. And hear it in a way that satisfies me presently.

 

[paradoxper]

agreed while the driver may be the bottleneck isn't that the case for all headphones.
The RAAL represents at least to me the biggest technical advance in personal audio sound in a decade

Sure. Also isn't that why planar headphones are driven by speaker amps or the electrostats have the DIY T2.
We are in Summit, no concessions need admission.

 

[jlbrach]

lets put it this way, if the sr1a was to have the same level of bass that the abyss TC has nobody would ever buy any HP other than the sr1a....as it is the sr1a is the most special HP out there IMHO...not necessarily the best because there is no such thing but the most different and special

 

[JLoud]

It is a different listening experience. I don’t know if I would choose it as my only headphone, mostly due to the type of music I listen to. But I enjoyed it very much last night with some Dave Matthew’s band. Not something I usually listen to, but it sounded phenomenon on the SR1A.

 

[Duncan_McCloud]

Was just listening to "Pink FLoyd - Echoes", which has some pretty good bass from 01:30 - 02:30. Well, I am not a critical listener, but Bass seems wonderful to me

 

[jlbrach]

the bass is only a problem for people who tend to like an exaggerated bass...to be honest I could argue that the sr1a is the more natural and accurate bass...when I switch to my abyss TC sometimes the bass in comparison sounds boomy...dont get me wrong I absolutely love my abyss but it is a completely different listening experience.....I have the same reaction with the susvara and its cupping experience....the RAAL people are apparently developing a traditional HP design which I assume will have a more traditional bass experience...personally I dont see the point and I told danny at RAAL that....what makes the sr1a special will be in essence removed in a traditional design...danny is a great guy BY THE WAY

 

[Jon L]

the RAAL people are apparently developing a traditional HP design which I assume will have a more traditional bass experience...personally I dont see the point and I told danny at RAAL that....what makes the sr1a special will be in essence removed in a traditional design...danny is a great guy BY THE WAY

I've been experimenting with "closing" Raal SR1a and Abyss TC with various materials like cardboard for fun, and I think some sort of adjustable partially-closed cup design could be a wonderful addition to our hobby. Completely closed doesn't sound that great to me, but partially closed cup that one can adjust like the "wing" of SR1a can optimize the advantages of both open and closed designs IME...

 

[jamington2004]

I am picturing a cardboard box on your head
With or without eye and mouth holes?

 

[ctemkin]

I am picturing a cardboard box on your head
With or without eye and mouth holes?

A little too close to tin foil for my liking.

 

[Jon L]

LOL. Try it easily and freely by first cupping your hands and covering the outside of SR1a (or Abyss). Then slowly hinge them open pivoting on front of the hand (pinky). If you like what you hear, simulate with some thick, bent cardboard next. Somewhere in the middle when the outside is closed 60-70%, I tend to observe some closed-back weight/impact strengths while not significantly losing the open sound.

 

[Sherwood]

When I crave the absolute truth in listening, I buy concert tickets and go live.

Seen a lot of live music the last nine months?

 

[bearcatsandor]

I'm going to take the advice of @Jon L and @FLTWS. I'm going to a concert with a box on my head.