Raal Ribbon Headphones - SRH1A
Mar 13, 2024 at 1:12 PM Post #7,726 of 7,847
I listened to my SR-1b this morning powered by a Feliks Audio Envy that I’ve borrowed for a few days. It did not lack bass weight, in fact I couldn’t believe it. It was so very different to when I use it with my HSA-1b. I’m back with the HSA now and the first 5-10 minutes were awful; it sounded so thin, harsh and even gritty. Now it’s open and clear again and the bass is there but without the weight. Later I’ll use the Envy in pre-amp mode into the HSA and see what difference the ‘hybrid’ mode brings. Happy days.
I must add that part of the reason for my perception of the sound quality was that I was in Roon Radio mode and hadn’t selected better quality recordings to listen to once I’d moved over to the HSA. The Envy is more forgiving of the source material, or, looked at another way, less transparent than the HSA. I think I’m learning that both have their merits when selecting what to listen to. Choosing some better recorded Jazz or Bela Fleck led to a better experience with the HSA/SR-1b.
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 7:48 PM Post #7,727 of 7,847
I listened to my SR-1b this morning powered by a Feliks Audio Envy that I’ve borrowed for a few days. It did not lack bass weight, in fact I couldn’t believe it. It was so very different to when I use it with my HSA-1b. I’m back with the HSA now and the first 5-10 minutes were awful; it sounded so thin, harsh and even gritty. Now it’s open and clear again and the bass is there but without the weight. Later I’ll use the Envy in pre-amp mode into the HSA and see what difference the ‘hybrid’ mode brings. Happy days.
Hi @nfandi Sorry if you mentioned somewhere else, are you using the Mitch filters or barrel compensation with the Envy?
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 8:52 PM Post #7,728 of 7,847
I think what you are finding here is the difference between a tubed amp and a solid-state amp and their respective output impedance interacting differently with the transformer/headphone load. A SS amp usually has a lower output impedance that damps out the headphone driver and thereby controls the drivers more, resulting in a more overdamped bass, i.e. the impression of less bass. A tubed amp like the Envy has a higher output impedance that interacts more with the headphone load, resulting in a more underdamped bass, therefore more bass output. Not that there is anything wrong with this, just the probable reason behind your finding more bass with the Envy.
The existing sound difference tube vs. solid state cannot be explained by the damping of the ribbon.

With ribbon headphones the cable alone has 10-20 times the impedance of the ribbon itself, so the amp can’t “control” the ribbon in a way we know from speakers.

You’re right about the coupling of the tube amp to the transformer interface.
The transformer’s lower impedance at sub frequencies results in a strong interaction with the amp.

But there’s more about it, tubes amps are just different animals in multiple ways.
 
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Mar 14, 2024 at 3:43 AM Post #7,729 of 7,847
Hi @nfandi Sorry if you mentioned somewhere else, are you using the Mitch filters or barrel compensation with the Envy?
I need to differentiate between ‘normal’ listening and ‘testing’ mode. For all normal listening scenarios I have the convolution filters linked into Roon and when using the HSA I always have them engaged. I also have HQPlayer on a MacbookPro but I’ve not used that this week while I’ve been ‘testing’ the Envy. I often, when in normal mode, don’t use HQPlayer, I’m quite happy using the Holo May in NOS mode with no external up/oversampling. If I do use HQPlayer I turn off the convolution filters in Roon and engage them in HQPlayer. This week in ‘testing’ mode with the Envy I’ve listened with and without the convolution filters and I’ve found that the quality of the recording plays a large factor in whether I use them or not, as also does which phone I’m using. With lower quality recordings there’s a tendency for the upper frequencies to sound bright or even harsh so I engage the filters, with better quality classical or jazz I’ve tried with and without and can enjoy either. The Envy certainly has a very different presentation of the upper frequencies and in general I listen without the filters. I find, especially with the SR-1b, that if you soften the higher frequencies it can be very tonally pleasant but you lose some of it’s ’raison d’etre’ as the French would say; there’s a reduction in the spatial qualities. With the SR-1a/Envy combination I did use the barrel compensation but in my relatively short time of listening it didn’t sound great to me. My mental conclusion is to wait until Immanis and the Envy are together and then decide where the SR-1b fits into my future plans. It’s not going anywhere it’s just a question of how much use it will get; and if it does stay ‘active’ I will buy the SR-1b filter from Mitch, the one that includes the barrel compensation. This could get out of hand because I’ve done a lot of testing this last few days so I need to summarise. In general I’ve preferred CA-1a to SR-1b when using the Envy direct. I’ve compared with HSA direct but I’ve also enjoyed the ‘hybrid’ mode of Envy pre-amp into HSA. On one day I inserted the SP3000 into the system to replace the Holo May. The sound was surprisingly good but it does become more 2 dimensional than the May. The main test was to use the SP3000 as a Roon endpoint and then to use it with Roon disengaged and this was very successful. As an endpoint I still get full Roon functionality and control from my iPad and this means the convolution filters were used. Very enjoyable in ‘Roon Mode’ but not so when SP3000 was ‘alone’. Treble especially becomes a little splashy and I’d need to explore EQ to improve this. I use Nutopia with the SP3000 when I travel but thought I’ve give it half a day with the Envy. This was the best I’ve heard the Nutopia either direct or with the Envy/HSA combination. It sounded good but a little more relaxed that the Raal duo so I might use this more often for late night listening.
Apologies for the brain dump but I’ve had a great time with the Envy this last week. Do not regard any of what I’ve said above as cast in concrete as many things that I conclude often only make themselves known to me after days of exposure, and therefore my long-term conclusions could differ slightly or significantly from these short term ones.
I think a few things have emerged that are important. Firstly, I was thinking of taking the HSA/CA-1a combo to my second location once I have Immanis and Envy together. I might still do that BUT I do not want to lose the ‘hybrid’ mode of Envy pre-amp to SS amp; so until I sort this out the HSA will stay here. I’ve enjoyed my time with the Envy and would now not want to live without a tube amp in my set up. And finally, there is a short-term loser here. I bought a Caldera last year, a special amber-stained Maple Burl that Zach made for Munich 2023. It looks very nice on its stand but it has not featured at all this week and so has gone back in its case 😢. I rarely feel the need to use it when I’m home though I do sometimes use it with the SP3000 with the PA10 Amp and it sounds good. But I’m thinking once Immanis is here it will see no home use. Time will tell, and I will give it a chance, especially if I do take the HSA away and replace it with a Holo Bliss at home.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 9:55 AM Post #7,730 of 7,847
I need to differentiate between ‘normal’ listening and ‘testing’ mode. For all normal listening scenarios I have the convolution filters linked into Roon and when using the HSA I always have them engaged. I also have HQPlayer on a MacbookPro but I’ve not used that this week while I’ve been ‘testing’ the Envy. I often, when in normal mode, don’t use HQPlayer, I’m quite happy using the Holo May in NOS mode with no external up/oversampling. If I do use HQPlayer I turn off the convolution filters in Roon and engage them in HQPlayer. This week in ‘testing’ mode with the Envy I’ve listened with and without the convolution filters and I’ve found that the quality of the recording plays a large factor in whether I use them or not, as also does which phone I’m using. With lower quality recordings there’s a tendency for the upper frequencies to sound bright or even harsh so I engage the filters, with better quality classical or jazz I’ve tried with and without and can enjoy either. The Envy certainly has a very different presentation of the upper frequencies and in general I listen without the filters. I find, especially with the SR-1b, that if you soften the higher frequencies it can be very tonally pleasant but you lose some of it’s ’raison d’etre’ as the French would say; there’s a reduction in the spatial qualities. With the SR-1a/Envy combination I did use the barrel compensation but in my relatively short time of listening it didn’t sound great to me. My mental conclusion is to wait until Immanis and the Envy are together and then decide where the SR-1b fits into my future plans. It’s not going anywhere it’s just a question of how much use it will get; and if it does stay ‘active’ I will buy the SR-1b filter from Mitch, the one that includes the barrel compensation. This could get out of hand because I’ve done a lot of testing this last few days so I need to summarise. In general I’ve preferred CA-1a to SR-1b when using the Envy direct. I’ve compared with HSA direct but I’ve also enjoyed the ‘hybrid’ mode of Envy pre-amp into HSA. On one day I inserted the SP3000 into the system to replace the Holo May. The sound was surprisingly good but it does become more 2 dimensional than the May. The main test was to use the SP3000 as a Roon endpoint and then to use it with Roon disengaged and this was very successful. As an endpoint I still get full Roon functionality and control from my iPad and this means the convolution filters were used. Very enjoyable in ‘Roon Mode’ but not so when SP3000 was ‘alone’. Treble especially becomes a little splashy and I’d need to explore EQ to improve this. I use Nutopia with the SP3000 when I travel but thought I’ve give it half a day with the Envy. This was the best I’ve heard the Nutopia either direct or with the Envy/HSA combination. It sounded good but a little more relaxed that the Raal duo so I might use this more often for late night listening.
Apologies for the brain dump but I’ve had a great time with the Envy this last week. Do not regard any of what I’ve said above as cast in concrete as many things that I conclude often only make themselves known to me after days of exposure, and therefore my long-term conclusions could differ slightly or significantly from these short term ones.
I think a few things have emerged that are important. Firstly, I was thinking of taking the HSA/CA-1a combo to my second location once I have Immanis and Envy together. I might still do that BUT I do not want to lose the ‘hybrid’ mode of Envy pre-amp to SS amp; so until I sort this out the HSA will stay here. I’ve enjoyed my time with the Envy and would now not want to live without a tube amp in my set up. And finally, there is a short-term loser here. I bought a Caldera last year, a special amber-stained Maple Burl that Zach made for Munich 2023. It looks very nice on its stand but it has not featured at all this week and so has gone back in its case 😢. I rarely feel the need to use it when I’m home though I do sometimes use it with the SP3000 with the PA10 Amp and it sounds good. But I’m thinking once Immanis is here it will see no home use. Time will tell, and I will give it a chance, especially if I do take the HSA away and replace it with a Holo Bliss at home.
Thank you for the thorough response. Appears you've been having a good time.

Your comments about the filters vs. barrel compensation align with my impressions of filters vs. built in compensation of the VM1a and JotR (both have the compensation built in with ability to disengage). I do not have a set of barrel compensators, so when I use the TI1a with a conventional amplifier, I can only use the filters. I have never had a chance to compare the barrel compensators with the built in compensation of the direct drive amplifiers. However, I have not found ANY combination with the SR1a where I can listen for long with neither compensation or filters. It is too fatiguing for me, even on the VM1a.

What interests me has been comparing the built in compensation vs. filters on the SR1a. I find, for what I think you would call "normal" mode, I simply use the internal compensation of the amplifier. But I agree with you that the filters retain a bit more of the spatial information than the built in compensation, the filters stage more and have more air and detail. But if a recording has any sibilance, it risks being strident. The built in compensation (and I suspect barrel compensators) make for a more laid back easy experience, especially on the VM1a.

I am extremely excited to find out if the higher efficiency of the Magna/Immanis allow them to be used with less powerful tube amplifiers, like the DNA Status, Quicksilver, or even Lyr level hybrid (very powerful already). This will open up these headphones to a whole new world and IMO potentially lower the system cost significantly vs. a VM1a or Envy level amplifier. I think people new to ribbons will be more receptive to the cost of the new headphones if they can be used very successfully with an amplifier that also enhances their listening with conventional headphones.

UPS says they arrive tomorrow, but I am about to walk outside and shovel a foot of snow already on the ground, so I am predicting I will sit around this weekend waiting for the delayed brown truck to come on Monday.

Happy listening, I am "Envy-ous"!
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 10:59 AM Post #7,731 of 7,847
Thank you for the thorough response. Appears you've been having a good time.

Your comments about the filters vs. barrel compensation align with my impressions of filters vs. built in compensation of the VM1a and JotR (both have the compensation built in with ability to disengage). I do not have a set of barrel compensators, so when I use the TI1a with a conventional amplifier, I can only use the filters. I have never had a chance to compare the barrel compensators with the built in compensation of the direct drive amplifiers. However, I have not found ANY combination with the SR1a where I can listen for long with neither compensation or filters. It is too fatiguing for me, even on the VM1a.

What interests me has been comparing the built in compensation vs. filters on the SR1a. I find, for what I think you would call "normal" mode, I simply use the internal compensation of the amplifier. But I agree with you that the filters retain a bit more of the spatial information than the built in compensation, the filters stage more and have more air and detail. But if a recording has any sibilance, it risks being strident. The built in compensation (and I suspect barrel compensators) make for a more laid back easy experience, especially on the VM1a.

I am extremely excited to find out if the higher efficiency of the Magna/Immanis allow them to be used with less powerful tube amplifiers, like the DNA Status, Quicksilver, or even Lyr level hybrid (very powerful already). This will open up these headphones to a whole new world and IMO potentially lower the system cost significantly vs. a VM1a or Envy level amplifier. I think people new to ribbons will be more receptive to the cost of the new headphones if they can be used very successfully with an amplifier that also enhances their listening with conventional headphones.

UPS says they arrive tomorrow, but I am about to walk outside and shovel a foot of snow already on the ground, so I am predicting I will sit around this weekend waiting for the delayed brown truck to come on Monday.

Happy listening, I am "Envy-ous"!
If UPS make it through the snow tomorrow you could become only the second customer on the planet to have one of the Raal 1995 phones. So far only simorag has the Immanis and so you become numero uno for Magna. Alex was definitely saying earlier in the thread that with the 32 ohm interface the new phones should work with any decent quality headphone amplifier. If you have something specific in mind like the Stratus why don’t you post the question. Aleks is regularly contributing here and ls very good with answering questions.
One thing to clarify from my previous post. With the SR-1b and HSA-1b combination the baffle compensation is always set to on on the amplifier and the convolution filter is always on in Roon. With the Envy I was using the TI-1b set to 32 ohms and the baffle compensation was achieved by using the RCA ‘barrels’ that were loaned to me. It was these RCA ‘connectors’ that I just couldn’t get used to. I’m back to using the CA-1a and Envy this afternoon and now it’s just a question of what music to choose. Envy was supposed to go back to the shop this week but I’ve had a stay of execution until at least next Tuesday. Happy listening indeed!
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 11:07 AM Post #7,732 of 7,847
I have the Mitch convolution filters loaded into Roon and I am able to engage and disengage them with a slider switch. The difference is immediate and obvious so the user should be able to do this also unless there are different versions of Roon.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 11:26 AM Post #7,733 of 7,847
I have the Mitch convolution filters loaded into Roon and I am able to engage and disengage them with a slider switch. The difference is immediate and obvious so the user should be able to do this also unless there are different versions of Roon.
I use them in Roon also and that is how I compare them to the direct drive amps with built in compensation. This takes some gain matching but is still a very interesting comparison.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 11:31 AM Post #7,734 of 7,847
If UPS make it through the snow tomorrow you could become only the second customer on the planet to have one of the Raal 1995 phones. So far only simorag has the Immanis and so you become numero uno for Magna. Alex was definitely saying earlier in the thread that with the 32 ohm interface the new phones should work with any decent quality headphone amplifier. If you have something specific in mind like the Stratus why don’t you post the question. Aleks is regularly contributing here and ls very good with answering questions.
One thing to clarify from my previous post. With the SR-1b and HSA-1b combination the baffle compensation is always set to on on the amplifier and the convolution filter is always on in Roon. With the Envy I was using the TI-1b set to 32 ohms and the baffle compensation was achieved by using the RCA ‘barrels’ that were loaned to me. It was these RCA ‘connectors’ that I just couldn’t get used to. I’m back to using the CA-1a and Envy this afternoon and now it’s just a question of what music to choose. Envy was supposed to go back to the shop this week but I’ve had a stay of execution until at least next Tuesday. Happy listening indeed!
Regarding Stratus question, I know Aleks would be happy to answer it, but I've already tried it with mixed success with the SR1a, and will soon be able to test it on both Immanis and Magna. I am bullish that it will be a great pairing given the higher sensitivity because even the SR1a was almost there. I promise I will be dumping a lot of impressions here!

Happy for you to have more time with the Envy!
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 11:34 AM Post #7,735 of 7,847
Yes, you can add back the insertion loss of the convolution filters using a procedural filter in Roon. For the Mitch filter using neutral plus low bass and baffle compensation the added gain for unity gain is 5.6 dB.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 11:39 AM Post #7,736 of 7,847
Regarding Stratus question, I know Aleks would be happy to answer it, but I've already tried it with mixed success with the SR1a, and will soon be able to test it on both Immanis and Magna. I am bullish that it will be a great pairing given the higher sensitivity because even the SR1a was almost there. I promise I will be dumping a lot of impressions here!

Happy for you to have more time with the Envy!
Immanis more efficient than Magna so could be an outstanding test for marital harmony…..👩‍❤️‍💋‍👨
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 12:04 PM Post #7,738 of 7,847
Thanks for the info, so you add that in headroom management?
I sent you a PM with the procedure on how to make up gain in Roon.
 

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