[cire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer Well for most games it wouldnt really matter since they are GPU bounded anyway. But look at the UT charts from AT : 46.5fps to 54.2fps, going from 256kb palermo to 512kb 939, both clocked identically at 1.8ghz. Unless I am mistaken, dual channel doesnt account for much of that difference, so it is got to be the cache.

actually, it is the dual channel memory thats helping it get such higher FPS. games that require lots of memory happen to also benefit the most from high CPU/memory bandwith.

if you want a more fair comparison, look at the productivity and encoding benchmarks. the sempron, with a 1/4 of the cache as the "real" A64 still does a great job holding up. it may not win, but it doesn't lose by a huge margin.

all A64 semprons now have 64bit extensions, so its fairly futureproof now.

 

[MikoLayer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire actually, it is the dual channel memory thats helping it get such higher FPS. games that require lots of memory happen to also benefit the most from high CPU/memory bandwith. if you want a more fair comparison, look at the productivity and encoding benchmarks. the sempron, with a 1/4 of the cache as the "real" A64 still does a great job holding up. it may not win, but it doesn't lose by a huge margin. all A64 semprons now have 64bit extensions, so its fairly futureproof now.

that just about goes against everything i read in the forums, where they say dual channel really serves nothing other than giving you higher scores on synthetic benchmarks. having an integrated memory controller is probably the reason, and there is another thread where the poster did extensive testing on how memory bandwidth makes very little difference on a64 based systems and thus it is not worth paying extra for expensive ram (and for that matter, lower the divider and go for lower latency)

productivity apps is pretty moot point, do you really need your word document to open up .01ms faster?

UT and HL2 are prime examples of when CPU DOES MATTER and near 16% is somewhat significant in my book.

I am not sure about latest availability, so you are probably right on most new units being 64bit; however, in case you come across a choice between 64bit and double the cache, i would definitely suggest to go for the latter.

EDIT: here is the link
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

I will admit I havnt followed the news and discussions that closely as of late. But unless I got it completely backwards, most people arent too thrilled about getting more mem bandwidth on a64 systems.

Last but not least, dont forget FX series are nothing more than glorified opterons, meaning they sport more cache to give them an edge over typical A64 cpus.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah agreed; i'd also add Abit to the reccommended mobo's.

I used to love Abit, have a KR7A-133R that is still running great after like 5 years, but they have gone downhill a lot lately, since Oscar Wu left for DFI in particular. Now they are on the brink of bankruptcy. I've heard so many nightmares about compatibility issues with their current crop of NF4 mobos it isn't even funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire unless 5-10% difference counts as "important", you're wrong: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=219&num=2 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2395&p=2

Even if it is only that much, I'd still say that's important. I mean I have a 3200+ clawhammer (SSE2, 1MB, single-channel) and also built a 3000+ venice box (SSE3, 512kB, dual channel, newer stepping). Obviously the latter has many adantages in its favor, other than cache. However, with mem timings equal, at the same clock speed, the clawhammer consistently wins benchmarks of all sorts. Considering that it is a processor about a year older than the one it is compared to, I think that is quite a boost that the cache gives it. Unless more cache is absolutely prohibitively expensive, I would also get a high-cache chip.

 

[Chri5peed]

This seems to be a good thread, just bought a new PC, not got it yet, what do people think?(not playing games btw)

Samsung CD burner, SH-R522C,
Asus A8N-SLI, nForce4 SLI, Socket-939
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2GHz Socket 939,
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2
Cooler Master Wave Master Silver
Tagan 2force 480W, Dual Fan,
Crucial PC3200 DDR-DIMM 2048MB CL3 KIT
Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2
XFX GeForce 6200 TurboCache,
Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" 1,44MB Silver

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed This seems to be a good thread, just bought a new PC, not got it yet, what do people think?(not playing games btw) Samsung CD burner, SH-R522C, Asus A8N-SLI, nForce4 SLI, Socket-939 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2GHz Socket 939, Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2 Cooler Master Wave Master Silver Tagan 2force 480W, Dual Fan, Crucial PC3200 DDR-DIMM 2048MB CL3 KIT Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 XFX GeForce 6200 TurboCache, Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" 1,44MB Silver

Great mobo, should be able to OC that thing a bit. Not a fan of WD, i've seen too many of their drives fail to be comfortable. Two fans in a PSU is a waste, one 80MM or 120MM is plenty fine. Crucial is generally overpriced for the performance it offers. Not bad if this is your first build, I may far more costly mistakes my first time out.

 

[MikoLayer]

Chri5peed, check out the link I provided for more information on ram.

As for harddrives, I think its a fair game for any brand nowadays. They all fail sometimes, and a good thing to do check their warranty policy and regularly backup important stuff (which I fail to do anyway

)
Samsungs are generally considered the quietest with nidec motors, and Hitachies tend to be fast. In the end, it all depends on which model we are talking about, plus they all seem plenty fast enough to me. Whatever drive you can get for less $$$ is what I would go for. I am running two seagates and a maxtor in my main rig myself.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer Great mobo, should be able to OC that thing a bit. Not a fan of WD, i've seen too many of their drives fail to be comfortable. Two fans in a PSU is a waste, one 80MM or 120MM is plenty fine. Crucial is generally overpriced for the performance it offers. Not bad if this is your first build, I may far more costly mistakes my first time out.

Lol, actually it has 3 fans in the case. Well 2 intake and 1 exhaust. Apart from excessive noise, is too much cooling ever bad?

Its 2GBs of PC3200 RAM in dual-channel, I doubt I'll be concerned with the speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer As for harddrives, I think its a fair game for any brand nowadays. They all fail sometimes

Theres a 3-year warranty on everything.

Lol, value for money on head-fi! I know Crucial isn't a bad make and it wasn't 300% more expensive, £5 more than other 2GBs.

 

[cire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed This seems to be a good thread, just bought a new PC, not got it yet, what do people think?(not playing games btw) Samsung CD burner, SH-R522C, Asus A8N-SLI, nForce4 SLI, Socket-939 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2GHz Socket 939, Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2 Cooler Master Wave Master Silver Tagan 2force 480W, Dual Fan, Crucial PC3200 DDR-DIMM 2048MB CL3 KIT Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 XFX GeForce 6200 TurboCache, Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" 1,44MB Silver

if you plan on overclocking, San Diegos are terrible chips with respect to bang per buck. the mobo is alright, not the greatest, but not a POS either. the graphics is a pile of shizzat, but you're not playing games, so its fine.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire if you plan on overclocking, San Diegos are terrible chips with respect to bang per buck. the mobo is alright, not the greatest, but not a POS either. the graphics is a pile of shizzat, but you're not playing games, so its fine.

No overclocking for me. Someone explain the concept?

Why overclock a system and put it under undue stress and have to get extra fans. In 6 months the speeds you've got from maxxed out components will be available from things built to go at that speed.
These specs would be a highly tricked out rig a few years back.

Lol, I bet even that GFX card was good in the early 90s!

 

[MikoLayer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed No overclocking for me. Someone explain the concept? Why overclock a system and put it under undue stress and have to get extra fans. In 6 months the speeds you've got from maxxed out components will be available from things built to go at that speed. These specs would be a highly tricked out rig a few years back. Lol, I bet even that GFX card was good in the early 90s!

its pretty simple, if you dont need performance, just go for somethning like EPIA. the majority of people want the most performace they can muster, and do it with good price/performance ratio. Hey, if you could pay measly $175 for a cpu and get near FX-57 performance at ease, why would you NOT do it? stress is a pure phobia or paranoia. I have been overclocking since 486-dx2 66 days and not a single part has failed owing to that. as long as you know what you are doing and dont try to pull off something crazy, the chances are your components will phase out way before (supposedely) shortened age comes into play. No offense, but I think you got a bit of paradox to work with there. You want something thats going to last you, but you dont want more performance out of it and go for mediocre to poor bang for buck? I have bought my palermo last april, and have been enjoying its near 3600+ performance for almost a year. Of course, it only cost me like $120 with the mobo combined.

The whole thing is a total overkill for a non gaming rig. I am willing to bet money nothing besides gaming is even going to come close to taxing the machine enough for next 3-4 years.

yeah, any car nowadays is more oil efficient compared to pre oil shock generations, but why stop there if you could go even more efficient?

EDIT : just to be on the safe side, WMV-HD isnt going to be all that smooth on an EPIA - one notable exception I guess

 

[Cyrilix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by patricklang I'm a few parts away from having 2 PC's, so I'm planning to upgrade my PC and reduce the noise a bit. Currently I'm using an Athlon 1.2ghz in a low-end Antec case w/ 350w PSU, which I plan to give to a family member. Has anyone here used a Sempron 3000+ first-hand? I want to switch to a CPU that has speed stepping and a variable speed fan to quiet down my PC a bit. I'm using a fanless Geforce FX5200 already, and the power supply fan is not contributing much noise. I'm looking at the Sempron 3000+ retail boxed with Asus K8N motherboard, seems like a good combo for the price ~$170. As far as arguments to CPU choice, I don't want to shell out for dual channel RAM and don't do enough gaming or encoding to justify a more expensive socket 939 chip or P4.

No such thing as dual-channel RAM. It's all advertising if that's what it says. There are dual-channel kits, but any two sticks in the right size configuration and right speed can work in dual-channel. This is dependent on your chipset, and socket 939 will allow dual-channel mode. Edit: I think it may also have to do with the CPU, but I know for sure that there's no such thing as dual-channel RAM.

Edit2: Mikolayer -- You say that you have a Palermo core running at 3600+. Unfortunately, 3600+ really means nothing unless you're comparing it to another Palermo core or something similar like the Athlon XP, but if you compare it to the Athlon 64, 3000+ A64 is really better than a 3000+ Barton. That said, I didn't really call you out for an argument on this topic. Rather, I wanted to say that games are really catching up to fast CPUs. Doom 3 had a minimum 1.5 GHz CPU requirement (that's a P4, not AMD, so for AMD it would be lower), however I'd say Doom 3 is even old by today's standards. Newer games are all pushing for at least a solid Athlon XP.

 

[cire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrilix There are dual-channel kits, but any two sticks in the right size configuration and right speed can work in dual-channel. This is dependent on your chipset, and socket 939 will allow dual-channel mode. Edit: I think it may also have to do with the CPU, but I know for sure that there's no such thing as dual-channel RAM.

the ram itself isn't dual channel, but the way its utilized is. dual channel kits are a good idea, as the chips on them are manufactured on the same wafer to ensure it works well when dual channeled. it should work fine even if the chips came from different batches. for A64s, the memory controller needs to be dual channel (any A64 that isn't 754 is dual channel).

 

[Cyrilix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire the ram itself isn't dual channel, but the way its utilized is. dual channel kits are a good idea, as the chips on them are manufactured on the same wafer to ensure it works well when dual channeled. it should work fine even if the chips came from different batches. for A64s, the memory controller needs to be dual channel (any A64 that isn't 754 is dual channel).

Well, that's what I meant. Did I say anything out of the ordinary?

I just meant in reply to the OP's original statement that he didn't want to pay more for dual-channel RAM. Well, you don't. You just buy 2 cheap sticks and it should be fine. The sticks don't have to be marketed "dual-channel RAM".

 

[MikoLayer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrilix No such thing as dual-channel RAM. It's all advertising if that's what it says. There are dual-channel kits, but any two sticks in the right size configuration and right speed can work in dual-channel. This is dependent on your chipset, and socket 939 will allow dual-channel mode. Edit: I think it may also have to do with the CPU, but I know for sure that there's no such thing as dual-channel RAM. Edit2: Mikolayer -- You say that you have a Palermo core running at 3600+. Unfortunately, 3600+ really means nothing unless you're comparing it to another Palermo core or something similar like the Athlon XP, but if you compare it to the Athlon 64, 3000+ A64 is really better than a 3000+ Barton. That said, I didn't really call you out for an argument on this topic. Rather, I wanted to say that games are really catching up to fast CPUs. Doom 3 had a minimum 1.5 GHz CPU requirement (that's a P4, not AMD, so for AMD it would be lower), however I'd say Doom 3 is even old by today's standards. Newer games are all pushing for at least a solid Athlon XP.

Yeah I know, but A palermo at 2.5ghz falls somewhere between athlon 64 3400+ and 3600+ for gaming, if I didnt make myself clear. for palermo (or sempron for that matter) it would probably get a higher rating, but there is no such official CPU. near 3600+ is precisely what I mean by that, a near a64 3600+ speed (well, it is somewhat closer to 3400 in reality but whatever

) Isnt everyone using/buying A64s by now? I thought giving a perspective in A64's terms would be most fitting

btw, I have upgraded from a mobile barton 2400+ running at 2.2ghz, so I am well aware of the performance gap across different platforms (or generations).

Doom3 probably isnt the best example of CPU bounded games though, when HL2 or UT is proven to be much more CPU denedent. For gaming, I would definitely go for the in thing now - opteron 146. The point is OP said no gaming, so any sempron is more than sufficient for his needs (a better choice than a 3700 which is neither the fastest, nor the most cost-effective)

EDIT : erk, got my numbers mixed up

 

[Chri5peed]

I am well aware dual-channel is not a physical thing.

http://www.kingston.com/newtech/MKF_...whitepaper.pdf

^Thats gives a good account of what dual-channel is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikolayer The whole thing is a total overkill for a non gaming rig. I am willing to bet money nothing besides gaming is even going to come close to taxing the machine enough for next 3-4 years.

Was that directed at me? Well for one thing I'm glad I've got an overpowered machine, I didn't pay a lot for it, about $1200...and don't forget I live in the rip-off UK.
Another thing whether its overpowered or not is subjective, you haven't got a clue what I'll be using it for, apart from not wasting my time playing games, I'm 27. My current rig(2400+ AMD/768RAM) is always slowing down doing stuff and I'll be doing even more stuff now, because I can.