Oops, re-read your post, that's about the limit of what i've remembered anyway so I can't really help. I should imagine though there is a reason that has something to do with impedance levels are impedance not resistance (capacitance and inductance too) so phase-shift comes into play.
Which cans have more bass with a sub 200$ amp, 601 or 701? Also, do the 601 really have much less detail than the 701? Or do you need very good sources and amps to hear the difference?. I don't plan to spend more than 200$ in the amp, so I wonder if the 701 are worth the price difference. Are always dark headphones less detailed than more bright ones? For example, are the HD650 and HD600 less detailed than K701 or DT880 because they have more laid back sound or not necessarily?
pterodactillo- if you want to play it safe, get the 601 and go from there. if you like the signature and would like more detail and think your amp could handle them get the 701. i wish i would have gone 601 to 701 instead of the other way round... either way im happier with the 601 by far because i couldnt afford an amp that could do the 701 justice to my ears. good luck! go for it, what have you got to lose??? lol
Which cans have more bass with a sub 200$ amp, 601 or 701? Also, do the 601 really have much less detail than the 701? Or do you need very good sources and amps to hear the difference?. I don't plan to spend more than 200$ in the amp, so I wonder if the 701 are worth the price difference. Are always dark headphones less detailed than more bright ones? For example, are the HD650 and HD600 less detailed than K701 or DT880 because they have more laid back sound or not necessarily?
From my experience, not necessarily. For instance, I have the PX100s which are more or less a bright headphone. I wouldn't say they are more detailed than the HD650, which falls more on the dark side. Or even the M50, which is definitely a darker headphone, it's still more detailed than the PX100 despite having all that bass floating around.
But for sure a bright headphone will typically have an advantage over a dark one by nature, because bright headphones are just that... you feel like the music is visible unlike dark where it can feel like there is a veil or shroud over it.
I'm of the opinion the K601 is the reference listening headphone, while the 70X are more for mastering than anything else.
The K601 measure and sounds flat - just like it should. The lack of "impact" people complain about is it being the balanced set of headphones it is. If you want impact, look elsewhere or consider a tactile transducer. As for the lack of detail compared to the 70X, the 70X are on the bright side which gives the impression of psuedo detail.
As for difficult to drive, in terms of impedance neither is really as difficult as people want to make them. The only question is sensitivity. I've tried both with a Mini^3, neither had clipped from it and sustained acceptable volumes. I've tried with full desktop amps with grunt too and still don't notice a difference - unless you really wanted to crank them to intolerable levels IME.
I agree with Shike and should add that people tend to overplay the importance of the amp. I've been very happy with how my FiiO E5 drives my HD650. I have absolutely no complaints with how this tiny amp can drive a 300 Ohm can like the HD650.
That said some amps don't work too well with others. I can't drive the K701 with the E5. It sounds loud enough but the sound doesn't sound too good. K701 might be too revealing and doesn'tlike the synergy with the E5. But yes the K701 is not as hard to drive as many people would lead you to believe. Just find an amp that works fine with it. I'll be receiving an el-cheapo P4 DIY amp soon and am going to see if it will work well with the K701. RIght now, the only portable amp I've used with success with the K701 is the Mustang.
Actually, I wouldn't use the E5 with the HD650s. The E5 is really only capable to 300ohms . . . the HD650 varies greatly in impedance sometimes reaching 600ohms. You're surely clipping them at that point causing some distortion. The question though is whether you pick up on the distortion or not.
On the other hand, the K701 shouldn't be that bad a load for the E5. Maybe it's not sensitive enough so when you increase the volume the distortion of the E5 rises dramatically? Their distortion figures are only covered to the first 10mw too . . .
This is when I wish I had a better input source for RMAA testing :|
@ mmayer167
I'm very analytical actually. It's because of that though that one can take a simplistic straight to the point approach. It sounds weird or opposite of how it should be, but that's how it works for me.
The HD650s sound clean to me out of the E5... but yeah I might just not be hearing the distortion. I have said many times before taht the HD650s "clean" out the sound for me and make even not so nicely recorded stuff sound good. Pretty much everyone disagreed with me but I really felt they sounded fine -- and I don't even have to max out the volume on the E5.
The K701 on the other hand, are just a no go on the E5. They just sound horrible. It could be though that my K701s just need more burn in. Like, I haven't hit the 500 hour mark yet.
I did mention before doing a comparison of the E5 and the Mustang, listening out of the E5 I'd often get some ear fatigue after a while. On the Mustang I had no such problem. I'm thinking hte clipping is there, my ears can hear it but my brain doesn't realize it until it's tired of the distortion.
I did mention before doing a comparison of the E5 and the Mustang, listening out of the E5 I'd often get some ear fatigue after a while. On the Mustang I had no such problem. I'm thinking hte clipping is there, my ears can hear it but my brain doesn't realize it until it's tired of the distortion.
It's certainly possible. It could be similar to when someone listens to a bright headphone and first loves it for its "detail", and then notice it becomes hard to listen to after a while.
I'm guessing there's probably some high frequency distortion going on if you experience this fatigue with the E5 and not the Mustang. Of course that's just a guess and we'd have to measure it to really determine it. I just wish Ray would actually list the specs of his amps, but if it sounds good to you then I'd just use it.
It's funny... I tried the E5 with the K701 again... hey, surprise surprise, they sound better now!
The K701 has had a lot more burn in time since then... I guess it's one of those cases where burn in really saves the day. It's also a testament to how the K701 really evolves over time.
Whereas before they sounded tinny and harsh on the E5, now they sound full-bodied and rich. It's... confusing.
--Shike, I have been tossing the idea of putting in an order for a mini^3 or m^3... how does your mini^3 pair with the 601? And can you recommend Rockhopper's work? I am guessing yes but thought id ask.
Other amps I have been considering since I had my 702 include: Shanling ph100, Darkvoice/Figaro 336, M^3. all fairly similar in price... i like the ability to add a variable bass response on the M^3. I am fairly satisfied with how my rolled indeed hybrid from a uDAC sounds, should I consider it a sealed pairing and run away while I am still happy with the indeed?
--Shike, I have been tossing the idea of putting in an order for a mini^3 or m^3... how does your mini^3 pair with the 601? And can you recommend Rockhopper's work? I am guessing yes but thought id ask.
Other amps I have been considering since I had my 702 include: Shanling ph100, Darkvoice/Figaro 336, M^3. all fairly similar in price... i like the ability to add a variable bass response on the M^3. I am fairly satisfied with how my rolled indeed hybrid from a uDAC sounds, should I consider it a sealed pairing and run away while I am still happy with the indeed?
Overall I've had a fair experience with Rockhopper.
As for the mini^3, it worked just fine. I don't throw around terms like synergy and the like that can't be proven. Another option is a b-stock AV123 X-head (rev. 2) which can be grabbed at a fair price (it's my main amp at this time).
As for whether you should run away with your pairing now, I can't tell you that. If you want to try something you can always try to buy used and if you decide you don't like it resell it here on the forums.
Which cans have more bass with a sub 200$ amp, 601 or 701? Also, do the 601 really have much less detail than the 701? Or do you need very good sources and amps to hear the difference?. I don't plan to spend more than 200$ in the amp, so I wonder if the 701 are worth the price difference. Are always dark headphones less detailed than more bright ones? For example, are the HD650 and HD600 less detailed than K701 or DT880 because they have more laid back sound or not necessarily?
i'm a big fan of the K601 and get to listen to friend's pair quite often. they're the safe choice and don't require sympathetic component matching. they're about on par wrt to detail. i've built 2 different CK2III amps for my friend and can strongly recommend the combo.
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