[jodgey4]

@Chris J Not to gang-pile on, but perhaps you could provide some insight on why I run 1.5W+ (AGD NFB-28 full volume, high gain, SE, digital inputs) into these and they don't distort and are still a listenable volume, could even be louder IMHO. I don't listen at loud volumes. You said the max input was 200mW, where is that spec? And as we've discussed before, these need ~170mW IIRC to reach 120 db peaks. I'm even doubting those specs.
 
My Note 4 does just enough volume with them, and adds some warmth to the mids and lower treble. Extension isn't quite as there, and I feel like the bass could use more control. Cleaner DAC might fix it all though... I'll have to test double amping my phone through my NFB-28 for comparison.

 

[Oktyabr]

There was a time I've love to have agreed with you. But an amp does more than just drive headphones louder. Most internal amps have to make a lot of compromises while discrete amps have one purpose. The end result is better sound, often attributed to the new amp, when its often just the loss of those compromises.
Second, remember that speakers are not purely resistive loads. Even volume matched, an underpowered speaker will sound worse than a properly driven speaker.

I sold a pair of AKG K701 a few years ago.  I knew their reputation for really needing a dedicated amp to sound their best but I never actually tried running them without one.  Until one day a college kid came over to check them out.  I let him listen to them on the amp I had (still have), a modestly rated Creek OBH-11, which I knew sounded terrific.  He said he actually wanted to go portable with them on occasion so we plugged them into both my iPhone 3G and HTC phone he had.  Sure, they played music but the differences were obvious to both of us.  Thinner, more compressed sounding, compared to the amp.  He passed on them.

 

[Chris J]

  @Chris J Not to gang-pile on, but perhaps you could provide some insight on why I run 1.5W+ (AGD NFB-28 full volume, high gain, SE, digital inputs) into these and they don't distort and are still a listenable volume, could even be louder IMHO. I don't listen at loud volumes. You said the max input was 200mW, where is that spec? And as we've discussed before, these need ~170mW IIRC to reach 120 db peaks. I'm even doubting those specs.
 
My Note 4 does just enough volume with them, and adds some warmth to the mids and lower treble. Extension isn't quite as there, and I feel like the bass could use more control. Cleaner DAC might fix it all though... I'll have to test double amping my phone through my NFB-28 for comparison.

 
Yep, gang pile on.
I'm telling Mom.
You guys never let me do anything!
I'm going to log off and sulk....!   

 
Sounds like this is turning into a big mess of confusion.
 
I got the maximum power from AKG's specs:
http://eu.akg.com/akg-product-detail_eu/q-701.html
 
You can also see the sensitivity of the Q701 on that link;   105 dB SPL/V.
AKGs specs seem to be a bit optimistic.
 
Math alert, danger, statistics ahead:
 
Here's a link to Inner Fidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf
Tyl measures 0.318 Volts rms, 1.68 mW to get an SPL of 90 dB.
90 dB is a fairly loud average listening level.
3.18 Volts, 168 mW would allow peaks of 110 dB SPL, not 120 dB.
 
I'll guess you are probably listening at an average level of 90 dB or maybe more.
But you're not driving 1.5 Watts into your Q701s.
Your source must output a very low output level.
 
Anyway....
Do I use my Q701 with my iPad?
yes, but i don't expect amazing sound, it merely sounds competent.
Do they work with the iPad? They sure do. Clean, no distortion, etc.
But I didn't buy the Q701 to use with an iPad.
Sure, the Qs sound better with better electronics.
 
Lately I've been using a Matrix Quattro amp and a Beresford Caiman Mk II DAC with my Q701.
For my ears, that's a good sounding, well balanced system.

 

[Chris J]

There was a time I've love to have agreed with you. But an amp does more than just drive headphones louder. Most internal amps have to make a lot of compromises while discrete amps have one purpose. The end result is better sound, often attributed to the new amp, when its often just the loss of those compromises.
Second, remember that speakers are not purely resistive loads. Even volume matched, an underpowered speaker will sound worse than a properly driven speaker.

 
OK, speakers and headphones are LCR loads.
If an underpowered amp clips, then if you volume match it to a a more powerful, then the underpowered amp will sound worse.
Not too sure what you're getting at.  

 
If you volume match a FiiO E09K headphone to a Matrix M Stage headphone, the Matrix will sound better.
I've tried this myself when I used to own both amps.
The Matrix sounds fuller and cleaner and has a more open, relaxed sound.
But they both output more than enough power for a Q701.
M Stage: 400 mW @ 60 Ohms.
E09K:  approx. 450 mW @ 60 Ohms.
 
I never said that all amps sound the same.
I'm only saying that you can use a pair of Q701 with an iPod or an iPad. But you'll get more out of any great headphones out of a great amp.

 

[jodgey4]

Yep, gang pile on.
I'm telling Mom.
You guys never let me do anything!
I'm going to log off and sulk....!   :wink_face:

Sounds like this is turning into a big mess of confusion.

I got the maximum power from AKG's specs:
http://eu.akg.com/akg-product-detail_eu/q-701.html...

Tyl measures 0.318 Volts rms, 1.68 mW to get an SPL of 90 dB.
90 dB is a fairly loud average listening level.
3.18 Volts, 168 mW would allow peaks of 110 dB SPL, not 120 dB.

I'll guess you are probably listening at an average level of 90 dB or maybe more.
But you're not driving 1.5 Watts into your Q701s.
Your source must output a very low output.

Lately I've been using a Matrix Quattro amp and a Beresford Caiman Mk II DAC with my Q701.
For my ears, that's a good sounding, well balanced system.

Thanks for the info on the max input. To get from 90 dB to 120 db, that's a 1000x increase in power, not to 110. Which actually means they're more sensitive than you said .

And my input was digital, which I assume is 2V, so that shouldn't be the problem. I've never heard of any AGD products not following specs, though maybe nobody's actually checked...

And running full power, it's loud, but not unbearable, save the crack of a snare occasionally.

But I'll add here, the end experience is what matters every time! I'm glad you enjoy your setup. I'm thinking about full recabling to dual entry and balanced staying from the drivers, as I already have Audeze cables. That should play better with my gear, I'm told.

 

[rawrster]

So I got them in the mail and right now all I have is my concero HP since I haven't bought an amp yet. It sounds pretty much as expected. I'll see over the next couple weeks what amp to get since I'm not really in a rush.

 

[Chris J]

Thanks for the info on the max input. To get from 90 dB to 120 db, that's a 1000x increase in power, not to 110. Which actually means they're more sensitive than you said

.

And my input was digital, which I assume is 2V, so that shouldn't be the problem. I've never heard of any AGD products not following specs, though maybe nobody's actually checked...

And running full power, it's loud, but not unbearable, save the crack of a snare occasionally.

But I'll add here, the end experience is what matters every time! I'm glad you enjoy your setup. I'm thinking about full recabling to dual entry and balanced staying from the drivers, as I already have Audeze cables. That should play better with my gear, I'm told.

 
I guess my post was a bit confusing.
I only stated 168 mW = 110 dB SPL because that is fairly close to AKG's spec from maximum power: 200 mW.
You would need 1.68 Watts to reach 120 dB peaks.
 
Just because the volume control is maxed out doesn't mean you are outputting full power.
Are you using a USB input?
Do you have the volume on Foobar or whatever you are using on 100%?
 
Volume control on my Matrix Quattro is typically between 9 and 11 o'clock when I use the Q701.

 

[Rossy007]

If some one has answered this question, I would appreciate being pointed to the reply 

 
I have had my Q701 for just over a year and I love them. I want to upgrade my system around them and was wondering what what amp would be the best pairing. I have $1000, firm, I cant go up any further and that would include any upgrades. I am currently running them through a Little Dot 1+ with some op amp & tube rolling and It sound quite good but some recordings are bass light and the top end can hurt my ears (I don't have the amp cranked up) below is a list of the music I listen to and I use Cd's exclusively...I wont be changing that.
 
Thanks everyone.
 
Lots of Classical
Genesis
Michael McDonald
Incognito
Rush
Queen
Elton John
Eva Cassidy
Nora Jones
Michael Buble
Clannad....and lots more
 
As you can see, its quite varied and like everyone here, I love the open sound stage and some cds show the massive potential of the headphones to great a very deep, warm and detailed bass. I leave it up to the experts here to guide me.

 

[Stillhart]

I'd suggest maybe a better tube amp.  The Q701 sounds fantastic with the NFB-15 DAC (warmish DAC) and Project Ember hybrid tube amp.  The Ember is probably overkill though, you could probably get away with one of Garage1217's cheaper models.  Do you have a nice DAC?  You didn't mention...

 

[jodgey4]

I guess my post was a bit confusing.
I only stated 168 mW = 110 dB SPL because that is fairly close to AKG's spec from maximum power: 200 mW.
You would need 1.68 Watts to reach 120 dB peaks.

Just because the volume control is maxed out doesn't mean you are outputting full power.
Are you using a USB input?
Do you have the volume on Foobar or whatever you are using on 100%?

Volume control on my Matrix Quattro is typically between 9 and 11 o'clock when I use the Q701.

Lol I'm so bad at math when I'm tired, haha!

Yes, any digital input on 98% volume.

Anyways, it's proof that they're hard to drive. Sorry to the casual reader for my derp math. I still think one should look for an amp that can do at least 0.250W, for quiet sources and future proofing. It's not a hard requirement these days.

 

[Rossy007]

  I'd suggest maybe a better tube amp.  The Q701 sounds fantastic with the NFB-15 DAC (warmish DAC) and Project Ember hybrid tube amp.  The Ember is probably overkill though, you could probably get away with one of Garage1217's cheaper models.  Do you have a nice DAC?  You didn't mention...

It's funny, I still like putting in a CD and listening to the whole album or selecting tracks. I have noticed people using their PC \ laptops but I use a computer most of the day and so don't want to do that. I was thinking of upgrading my CD player (Sony CDP-491) but kinda eats into my budget so I would rather just upgrade the amp if possible.

 

[Stillhart]

 
It's funny, I still like putting in a CD and listening to the whole album or selecting tracks. I have noticed people using their PC \ laptops but I use a computer most of the day and so don't want to do that. I was thinking of upgrading my CD player (Sony CDP-491) but kinda eats into my budget so I would rather just upgrade the amp if possible.

 
Well, all the boring discussion the last few pages was meant to show that a more powerful amp can make your Q sound better.  So yeah, I'd shoot for a better tube amp.  
 
I don't know that I'd spend $1000 on an amp with a $150 headphone, tho.  There are a few upgrade paths you can take.  
 
The quickest and easiest is maybe upgrading to the K712 and getting an amp in the $300-400 price range.  This would come in well under budget and be a noticeable upgrade.
 
You could also look into upgrading to a newer CD player with optical output (a cursory search on Crutchfield showed a 6-disc Onkyo with optical out was only $150), then getting a nice DAC like the NFB-15 (or whatever floats your boat) and an upgraded amp.  This again should come in under budget.
 
You can do a lot with that budget TBH...

 

[Rossy007]

   
Well, all the boring discussion the last few pages was meant to show that a more powerful amp can make your Q sound better.  So yeah, I'd shoot for a better tube amp.  
 
I don't know that I'd spend $1000 on an amp with a $150 headphone, tho.  There are a few upgrade paths you can take.  
 
The quickest and easiest is maybe upgrading to the K712 and getting an amp in the $300-400 price range.  This would come in well under budget and be a noticeable upgrade.
 
You could also look into upgrading to a newer CD player with optical output (a cursory search on Crutchfield showed a 6-disc Onkyo with optical out was only $150), then getting a nice DAC like the NFB-15 (or whatever floats your boat) and an upgraded amp.  This again should come in under budget.
 
You can do a lot with that budget TBH...

Thanks, as I haven't tried the K712, I am not sure the difference but doing a quick search, I didn't see that much of a difference

. I love the overall sound of my Q701 but feel (maybe incorrectly) that if I can extend the bass and tame the highs, I will be very satisfied. I thought it was a fault of the amp, but maybe I'm wrong. I was looking at a Woo Wa6 but it may be a fault with the source as you mentioned.

 

[Danpyre]

I just plugged in my cables today and OH MY GOD!!!
I CAN HEAR CLEEARLY NOW, MUAHAHAHA!!!!!!!1

 

[Stillhart]

 
Thanks, as I haven't tried the K712, I am not sure the difference but doing a quick search, I didn't see that much of a difference

. I love the overall sound of my Q701 but feel (maybe incorrectly) that if I can extend the bass and tame the highs, I will be very satisfied. I thought it was a fault of the amp, but maybe I'm wrong. I was looking at a Woo Wa6 but it may be a fault with the source as you mentioned.

 
Out of curiosity, have you tried the bass mod?  Takes about 5 minutes and it's reversible.
 
I'm not saying an amp won't help; I think a better amp will improve the overall sound.  But there are a lot of other ways to improve the sound as well.  The K712 is supposed to improve on the Q701 in the ways that you mentioned (better bass, tamed trebles) while also providing just better overall resolution across the board.  I may be just what you need.  But of course, the K712 will also benefit from a better amp.  lol  
 
And of course, tubes can make a big difference.  A Project Ember with a crazy $200 Bugle Boy or something should be pretty spectacular.
 
I dunno, plenty of people in here who are more knowledgable than I.  Let's see what other folks have to say.