PROPERLY Deciding On Amp/DAC

Jul 8, 2009 at 3:11 AM Post #46 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I find it impossible that any person with reasonable hearing capability cannot distinguish between the sound of the HD650 when driven single ended by a compass and driven balanced by the Phoenix. (blind tested or not)


So why not put all of the voices to rest and just do a simple test? Surely you have a day open where you can demonstrate the difference between the two. You can just keep your headphones on and use a balanced->SE converter (I think) and have someone switch between the two sources behind a veil or whatever. Or you could use a switch, or whatever.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 4:31 AM Post #47 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So why not put all of the voices to rest and just do a simple test? Surely you have a day open where you can demonstrate the difference between the two. You can just keep your headphones on and use a balanced->SE converter (I think) and have someone switch between the two sources behind a veil or whatever. Or you could use a switch, or whatever.


As of now, I do not have a dual XLR to 1/4" adapter. Moreover, I'm not interested in doing blind testing with the HD650 as I don't find any compelling reason to. It's not like I need to convince myself here. It's the skeptics that need proof on benefits of HD650 when driven balanced. So they can certainly do it themselves, not me.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 5:14 AM Post #48 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Moreover, I'm not interested in doing blind testing with the HD650 as I don't find any compelling reason to.


Well, without blind testing, you don't know that any component or system sounds different than any other. Maybe your ipod through Apple's stock IEM's at 128 kbs sounds the same as your balanced set up. Unless you've done a blind test, you really have no basis to believe otherwise.
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Jul 8, 2009 at 6:04 AM Post #49 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am often reminded of this passage from an old book, Zen in the art of archery:

"Your difficulty is that you do not let go of yourself. You brace yourself for failure. You do not wait for fulfilment. It should happen independently of you, of your idea of doing right. You must learn to wait properly."


Nice!

(Going back to my popcorn now.
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Jul 8, 2009 at 3:26 PM Post #50 of 94
Eh, it looks like the Compass is going to be a tad too big. I'm operating on kind of a small desk... does anyone have any recommendations on a Amp/DAC that is a bit smaller than the Compass?
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 7:35 PM Post #51 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by TStewart422 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Eh, it looks like the Compass is going to be a tad too big. I'm operating on kind of a small desk... does anyone have any recommendations on a Amp/DAC that is a bit smaller than the Compass?


Perhaps the EMU 0404 USB. The USB version is exactly the same as the PCI version as far as DACs go, and it has its own headphone amplifier which may not give you a whole lot of volume, but it will provide distortion-free output. If you listen to moderate-low volumes you'll be more than fine.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 9:48 PM Post #52 of 94
The EMU 04040 USB looks pretty nice for the price. And it even includes a HP amplifier. Then it can be connected (in the input) with XLR or balanced jack, which is good with that neutrik all in one connector.

I would have bought that if I didn't have in mind to use the DEQ2496 for room correction in a not so distant future
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Jul 8, 2009 at 11:27 PM Post #53 of 94
Unfortunately science has yet to determine in any absolute sense why some things sound better to use and not others.

The more inferior the amp and source with the better Sennheisers, the narrower the soundstage (headstage) and the poorer the sound. I'm sure that, technically, I could drive the HD-650's out of my MacBook Pro's headphone socket, but no science can measure the greater enjoyment a person can experience when those HD-650's are used with higher quality gear.

Bullseye: I think you are one of the people on this forum who do people the greatest disservice. In this thread, you have both trashed and recommended gear you have zero experience with, which makes your advice worthless at the very least. Ironic, because you also have a go at someone for not measuring the volume between SE and balanced with an SPL meter. Do you even own one yourself?

You probably haven't stopped to think of the consequences of your advice, which is people spending money on gear that will very likely not give them listening satisfaction, so you have encouraged them to waste their money. Subsequently, you lower the quality of the forum in the process.
 
Jul 9, 2009 at 4:18 AM Post #54 of 94
I think the only way to resolve the balanced issue would be to ABX, but unfortunately it would take multiple people, a balanced to SE adapter, an SPL meter, and more which would be hard to come by.

Even if it did suggest no difference, it would probably not wind up convincing too many of the "believers."

Until then we'll just be having the same circular argument.

The fact that balanced and unbalanced cabling cannot be ABXed would perhaps suggest no difference, but I believe there's a difference between balanced cabling and balanced drive which means those tests are at best suggestive and certainly not conclusive. Unfortunately, since head-fi isn't "mainstream," no one has bothered ABXing balanced and unbalanced drive.
 
Jul 9, 2009 at 5:15 AM Post #55 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Perhaps the EMU 0404 USB. The USB version is exactly the same as the PCI version as far as DACs go, and it has its own headphone amplifier which may not give you a whole lot of volume, but it will provide distortion-free output. If you listen to moderate-low volumes you'll be more than fine.


Eh, the thread on it on here revealed that the headphone amp doesn't provide enough power... too bad; I kind of liked it.

Any other suggestions? Is it safe to say that anything battery-powered (like the highly-regarded Predator) is OUT when it comes to powering the HD-650s?
 
Jul 9, 2009 at 5:33 AM Post #56 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by TStewart422 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Eh, the thread on it on here revealed that the headphone amp doesn't provide enough power... too bad; I kind of liked it.

Any other suggestions? Is it safe to say that anything battery-powered (like the highly-regarded Predator) is OUT when it comes to powering the HD-650s?


It's almost safe to say it, but I've heard one VERY transparent and good sounding battery powered amp (admittedly have not tried it with the HD650 but will have a chance this Sat), it's the ALO Amphora.
 
Jul 9, 2009 at 5:51 AM Post #57 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's almost safe to say it, but I've heard one VERY transparent and good sounding battery powered amp (admittedly have not tried it with the HD650 but will have a chance this Sat), it's the ALO Amphora.


Heh, as nice-looking as that amp is; it's a TAD above what I want to pay! I don't think it has a DAC anyway... I'm looking for DAC/Amps that will sufficiently power a HD-650.

Oh yeah, and since I'm an Apple guy, the LOOKS of the amp definitely matter!
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Jul 9, 2009 at 6:04 AM Post #59 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Apogee Duet gets rave reviews, but I haven't heard it myself.


I've had my eye on that one for the past few days; but I can't find specs anywhere! From the talks of the forum, the amp in that is lacking anyway. It's possible that it, like the amp mentioned above, is underpowered for fueling the HD-650s. But, since Apogee hasn't posted specs, I'm not going to take that change.
 
Jul 9, 2009 at 6:08 AM Post #60 of 94
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Bulleyes, this is an honest question here: Have you heard the HD650 balanced?

I JUST heard it for the first time and although one can argue that it isn't necessarily "better sounding", I can definitely tell you that it sounds different no matter what volume I listen at.

From my experience here: A balanced HD650 sounds nothing like a single ended one.


The 650 is great in balanced drive. So good, infact, after selling my DAC1, needed emergency cash... I sold my 650.. SE didn't cut it anymore, especially with my current amp. I had my 650, SA5000, and 340 balanced... The 650/SA5000 showed a excellent improvement, the 340 didn't. Infact, I was trying to hear a difference with my balanced 340 to justify the cost of the balanced recable, thats when I told myself, forget about it..... Funny thing is, elias, the DAC1 head engineer, thinks balanced drive is BS for headphones. He said there would be more noise and sound worse then using the DAC1's SE amp section. Low ohm, like my 70ohm SA5000 would sound 'distorted.' I never heard the SA5000 sound so clean.. I urged him to try the 650's balanced using the DAC1.. He never responded.
 
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