[ericr]

IIRC, the guy who started this thread (gamefreak) also liked the 6 volt amperex quite a lot, and the 12 volt even more.
 
Hopefully someone else will give the Westinghouse 12AU7 I reviewed a bit above a try, and maybe compare to the 7308. To my ears Westinghouse are better than my 6 volt amperex (which was my previous favorite).  Another point in favor of these is the price.  I picked up two on ebay for under $20!

 

[Amish]

Based off the review from the OP I picked up a new old stock 1961 Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12AX7. I cannot wait to try this thing out.

 

[connieflyer]

  IIRC, the guy who started this thread (gamefreak) also liked the 6 volt amperex quite a lot, and the 12 volt even more.
 
Hopefully someone else will give the Westinghouse 12AU7 I reviewed a bit above a try, and maybe compare to the 7308. To my ears Westinghouse are better than my 6 volt amperex (which was my previous favorite).  Another point in favor of these is the price.  I picked up two on ebay for under $20!

I have been using the Westinghouse from tubemaze for about 6 months now.  I trade it in and out as it was at the top of my list of tubes that I had.  It is a very nice tube your description of it is accurate as far as I can tell.  I am using hd650's with Ember, dac is an Emovtiva xda-2. I purchased a cv4024 Mullard from Brent Jesse and like it a little better.  I also trade in and out the Edicron 7dj8, which I like better than my amperex bugle boy 6dj8. Have been listening to a Westinghouse blaack plate 12av7 and am liking what I hear.  Have not used it for awhile, grapped it my mistake when I was reaching for the 12au7 and this tube is much better than I remember. Can't say for sure which tube I like the best, all have there pluses and minus'.  I think I would rate the Mullard CV4024 first Westinghouse black 12au7 and 12av7 next and then the Edicrom 7dj8.  It is time to sell off the tubes I don't use much, make room for new!

 

[Amish]

I am no audiophile. I'm just a guy that loves good sounding music. I'll do my best to describe my tubes.
 
 
Well I've had a week with some tubes, a few days with others and tonight for several more. Instead of talking about the brands I can add some input on the tube types I like the most. Keep in mind that I have not spent hours on end with all of these tubes except for the '64 Amperex 12ax7 (which sounds amazing)
 
All tubes were ran on the amp with low gain, bypass enabled, and medium res.
 
So I tend to gravitate towards the 12ax7's the most. (I own several Amperex tubes in this category; all Bugle Boys except one Polytronics Lab branded Amperex and the Tungsol 12ax7).  
All of them have REALLY up front vocals, a ton of mid range punch with strong highs. Bass is good but doesn't stand out as much; but seems accurate which I prefer when listening to music. Great separation, (instruments). Due to the big gain on these tubes they can seem a little on the bright side. Not the tube I'd use with my Grado but work well with my LCD-2.
 
The Tungsol 12ax7 is the worst of the bunch. This is a replica Russian tube based off the vintage tubes and it just kinda blows. It's okay but not a tube that I'll use again. Compared to the vintage Amperex tubes it doesn't even compete.
 
Next we have the 12au7's. (JJ and Westinghouse with Westinghouse clearly winning.) These have a more mellow smooth sound to them. I guess a bit on the warmer side. the entire FR seems to be more neutral. Vocals are back with the rest of the band. I think these are good, not great and work well with my Grado though for the LCD-2 I prefer the 12ax7 or 12at7 or just about anything else I have. The JJ 12au7 is prettty good. Sounds kinda like my SS amp and is a little grainy. It's a decent tube but I'll not be using it again.
 
Next we have the 12at7 (Telefunken) Man where do I start? This one sounds amazing and I think this is the nicest sounding tube I own. Higher gain than the 12au7 but not as high as the 12ax7. Amazing separation, great clarity, not quite neutral but close, vocals are slightly forward, mids are very clean, If any tube was 3d it is this one. Bass has punch very much like the 12ax7; not super deep or anything but clean and realistic sounding to me. All in all this tube sounds beautiful. I like it a lot!!
 
Next we have the 6dj8 tubes. (I own two of these. A vintage Amperex bugle boy gold pin and a vintage Siemens (Zenith branded)) These believe it or not both sound different from one another. The bugle boy sounds a lot like the other Amperex 12ax7's but without the gain. So everything I said about the Amperex 12ax7's fits in with this tube but the gain is much lower. The Siemens is what is in my amp right now. Not as clean as the others and vocals are more 'back with the band' everything seems pushed back slightly in sound but good separation, pretty neutral sounding compared to the Amperex 6dj8 but good sounding and even though it's not quite as clean; it's still clean enough to sit back and enjoy. The Amperex really kicks it up a notch though.
 
 
So that's it. My take so far. I expect all of these tubes to get better with use and I have yet to run my amp in conjunction with my Oritek Audio OMZ dac V4.1 as I am waiting for my blue jeans cable to come in. So I'm using my Harman Kardon 3490 as a preamp. I expect once the Oritek is hooked up to the amp I will get even better sound out of each of these tubes. I might then
re-evaluate each of these tubes and update this.
 
Let me rank my tubes in the order of best to worst sounding (to my ears):
 

• 1960 Telefunken 12AT7
• 1964 Amperex Holland treble clef logo Bugle Boy 12ax7
• 1961 AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 12AX7
• Polytronics Lab 12ax7 (Amperex Holland)
• Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 6DJ8 ECC88 Large D Getter GOLD PIN
• 1968 SIEMENS ECC88 6DJ8
• Westinghouse black plate 12au7
• Westinghouse black plate 12au7
• JJ 12au7
• Tungsol 12ax7

 

[pat1984]

Has anyone tried using sensitive headphones (sensitive IEMs or even beyer T90) with high gain tubes (like 12AX7) on the ember? I hear a hissing sound with these tubes, is it common?

 

[Amish]

Due to the higher gain of the 12AX7's they can be noisy. Some more than others.

 

[ericr]

Just tried my higher gain tubes and it's like Amish said, some more than others.  The only 12AX7 type tube I have is the Voskhod 6N2P-EV and it had a hiss that was still noticeable at lower volume levels.  Of my 12AT7 (and similar gain) tubes the Tunsram ecc85 was much like the Voskhod, while a Siemens ecc85 is quiet, as is the Sylvania GB 6201.
 
This is with my 1964Ears V6-Stage which are very sensitive and only 16 Ohms impedance.

 

[pat1984]

  Due to the higher gain of the 12AX7's they can be noisy. Some more than others.

 
 

  Just tried my higher gain tubes and it's like Amish said, some more than others.  The only 12AX7 type tube I have is the Voskhod 6N2P-EV and it had a hiss that was still noticeable at lower volume levels.  Of my 12AT7 (and similar gain) tubes the Tunsram ecc85 was much like the Voskhod, while a Siemens ecc85 is quiet, as is the Sylvania GB 6201.
 
This is with my 1964Ears V6-Stage which are very sensitive and only 16 Ohms impedance.

 
Thanks guys for the quick response. What are your suggestions then? Should I use a higher resistance on the ember? Right now its on low gain and low resistance.

 

[ericr]

1) What is the resistance of your headphones?
2) Do you have the supercharger?

 

[pat1984]

I mostly use my t90 so its 250 ohms and yes i have the supercharger

 

[ericr]

Yes, more resistance will quiet things down some.  I prefer listening to the T90 using the highest R setting as it smooths out the treble.
 
If you're interested in some lower gain tubes you might consider the 12bh7 (& 12bh7a).  The few I have are very quiet - including when adjusting the volume with the output capacitors bypassed (no scratching / crackling).  Here's a blog post of some 12bh7 listening tests:
 
http://oldstockaudio.blogspot.com/2010/05/12bh7-listening-test.html

 

[J&J]

The 12bh7 in Ember with SC is a real nice warm sounding tube.  I'm using some ge & rca 12bh7. The Russian 6n2p are great high resolution tubes but many are microphonic and generally noisy had to try a few to get good ones but if it's detail your looking for the 6n2p are great IMO and experience

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Recommended by Johan-71, I picked up the Sylvania Red and RCA BH7. Both sound similar and great in their own way. I find it a good match with both HE4s and HE560. Highly recommend them if you have the SC.

 

[stupidmop]

  I am no audiophile. I'm just a guy that loves good sounding music. I'll do my best to describe my tubes.
 
 
Well I've had a week with some tubes, a few days with others and tonight for several more. Instead of talking about the brands I can add some input on the tube types I like the most. Keep in mind that I have not spent hours on end with all of these tubes except for the '64 Amperex 12ax7 (which sounds amazing)
 
All tubes were ran on the amp with low gain, bypass enabled, and medium res.
 
So I tend to gravitate towards the 12ax7's the most. (I own several Amperex tubes in this category; all Bugle Boys except one Polytronics Lab branded Amperex and the Tungsol 12ax7).  
All of them have REALLY up front vocals, a ton of mid range punch with strong highs. Bass is good but doesn't stand out as much; but seems accurate which I prefer when listening to music. Great separation, (instruments). Due to the big gain on these tubes they can seem a little on the bright side. Not the tube I'd use with my Grado but work well with my LCD-2.
 
The Tungsol 12ax7 is the worst of the bunch. This is a replica Russian tube based off the vintage tubes and it just kinda blows. It's okay but not a tube that I'll use again. Compared to the vintage Amperex tubes it doesn't even compete.
 
Next we have the 12au7's. (JJ and Westinghouse with Westinghouse clearly winning.) These have a more mellow smooth sound to them. I guess a bit on the warmer side. the entire FR seems to be more neutral. Vocals are back with the rest of the band. I think these are good, not great and work well with my Grado though for the LCD-2 I prefer the 12ax7 or 12at7 or just about anything else I have. The JJ 12au7 is prettty good. Sounds kinda like my SS amp and is a little grainy. It's a decent tube but I'll not be using it again.
 
Next we have the 12at7 (Telefunken) Man where do I start? This one sounds amazing and I think this is the nicest sounding tube I own. Higher gain than the 12au7 but not as high as the 12ax7. Amazing separation, great clarity, not quite neutral but close, vocals are slightly forward, mids are very clean, If any tube was 3d it is this one. Bass has punch very much like the 12ax7; not super deep or anything but clean and realistic sounding to me. All in all this tube sounds beautiful. I like it a lot!!
 
Next we have the 6dj8 tubes. (I own two of these. A vintage Amperex bugle boy gold pin and a vintage Siemens (Zenith branded)) These believe it or not both sound different from one another. The bugle boy sounds a lot like the other Amperex 12ax7's but without the gain. So everything I said about the Amperex 12ax7's fits in with this tube but the gain is much lower. The Siemens is what is in my amp right now. Not as clean as the others and vocals are more 'back with the band' everything seems pushed back slightly in sound but good separation, pretty neutral sounding compared to the Amperex 6dj8 but good sounding and even though it's not quite as clean; it's still clean enough to sit back and enjoy. The Amperex really kicks it up a notch though.
 
 
So that's it. My take so far. I expect all of these tubes to get better with use and I have yet to run my amp in conjunction with my Oritek Audio OMZ dac V4.1 as I am waiting for my blue jeans cable to come in. So I'm using my Harman Kardon 3490 as a preamp. I expect once the Oritek is hooked up to the amp I will get even better sound out of each of these tubes. I might then
re-evaluate each of these tubes and update this.
 
Let me rank my tubes in the order of best to worst sounding (to my ears):
 

• 1960 Telefunken 12AT7
• 1964 Amperex Holland treble clef logo Bugle Boy 12ax7
• 1961 AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 12AX7
• Polytronics Lab 12ax7 (Amperex Holland)
• Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 6DJ8 ECC88 Large D Getter GOLD PIN
• 1968 SIEMENS ECC88 6DJ8
• Westinghouse black plate 12au7
• Westinghouse black plate 12au7
• JJ 12au7
• Tungsol 12ax7

  If your Amperex Bugle boy ECC88 has gold pins, I'm pretty sure it's a relabel or something. 6922 or E88CC have the gold pins and most were made in New York. Ones made in Holland have SQ on them I think. If they have the etched Delta code they're legit but I've never seen or heard of a real BB with gold pins. Not sure but might wanna do some research FWIW

 

[Amish]

I have been doing research because like you said I cannot find any info on this model BB with gold pins. They did make them with gold pins but to my knowledge not the 6DJ8 nor with the bugle boy that I can find, and it does not have the delta code on it. The tube looks legit and god knows I've studied it but I cannot find any info on this tube with gold pins. When I first received it I compared it to my other legit holland Bugle Boy tubes and it looks close BUT it has gold pins, no delta, and the stamp up top with the tube model info seems odd to me considering my other BB tubes didn't stamp it like that. Plus when i rub on the logo and lettering it doesn't come off which it should. I even used my finger nail on it. the guy that sold it on ebay has 100% feedback, sells tubes, has loads (I mean thousands) of positive reviews with zero negative. But I have been doubting this tube since day one but because I can't find any real info on this tube I can't say for sure.
 
I don't know but I think I will contact the seller and see what he says. Here is a picture of it: