[HOWIE13]

  I asked for a split payment and got 50% percent down 50% when ready to ship.  Nice folks to deal with and their amps have quite a following, here on Head-Fi as well as other forums.  Lead times for the really expensive amps can be over 10-12 months, which I would never do.  The Elise tube swapping and adapter changing is quite in vogue there. The one member has gone from two power tubes to six with an adapter custom made by our favorite China maker. Still enjoy the Ember, and now with the Senn 700's even more so. Putting my 650's up for sale tonite, will start here on Head-Fi and then go to Ebay next week.  Come on over and check us out Howie, would be glad to have you there, they are very active on that forum.  Good listening to you, my friend.

Cheers, Don.
I went to the thread but when I saw how large it had grown I was rather put off, as I didn't know where to start, but those amps look very interesting. I'll keep looking at it though as it increases our knowledge of different tubes. I hope your amp, and I think DecentLevi has ordered one too, comes soon so we can have your valued comparisons.
I've been listening with Horizon recently and really miss the auto bias. I asked Jeremy if he could adapt Horizon but nothing is in the pipeline. The other thing is I've re-discovered my HD600's after 3 years of hardly using them. They now seem just right with Ember, maybe my ears, or brain, are changing. You have a good weekend too.

 

 

[Luckbad]

  Cheers, Don.
I went to the thread but when I saw how large it had grown I was rather put off, as I didn't know where to start, but those amps look very interesting. I'll keep looking at it though as it increases our knowledge of different tubes. I hope your amp, and I think DecentLevi has ordered one too, comes soon so we can have your valued comparisons.
I've been listening with Horizon recently and really miss the auto bias. I asked Jeremy if he could adapt Horizon but nothing is in the pipeline. The other thing is I've re-discovered my HD600's after 3 years of hardly using them. They now seem just right with Ember, maybe my ears, or brain, are changing. You have a good weekend too.

 

 
I wish I didn't prefer the Horizon/Sunrise to the Ember, specifically because of auto bias.
 
That said, the limitation of having to semi-manually bias means I've focused down my tube rolling somewhat.
 
With the Ember (which is still in front of me...), I can't resist rolling a tube or two every night.

 

[DecentLevi]

Interesting to hear you folks are talkin' about the Elise. The first time I mentioned it some of you seemed put off at the idea of a competing amp. Anyway after months of reading thousands of posts all with unequivocally amazing results I took a leap and ordered it on blind faith. Later this month when I get mine, I plan to do a comparison between it and the Zana Deux (by memory anyway), and of course the Ember. But I take it you guys would be offended if I post that on this thread? So maybe I'll just send the link to it. BTW the Elise thread has slowed down a lot and is now easier to follow, if you'd like.
 
I more/less disagree with the need for precisely matched tubes. Slight differences like fin shape, tiny chipped off bits, etc. shouldn't alter the sound very dramatically if at all. I understand how a matched pair would give you a better idea of how it effects the sound, but the picture you get from a slightly mismatched pair really won't differ too greatly from a perfectly matched pair. Some people even mix & match completely different brands and occasionally different voltages (careful with this one) within the same dual pair and get great results.
 
Anyway the reason I made such an effort to compare the Visseaux to the Zenith 6J5's yesterday was in effort to see if we can outdo what is considered the king for the Ember, with the Zenith as one that is extremely comparable... Day two with the Zenith and I'm happy enough to have not switched back to the Visseaux yet.
 
PS- I'm not saying it's better (yet), just a different flavor

 

[HOWIE13]

   
I wish I didn't prefer the Horizon/Sunrise to the Ember, specifically because of auto bias.
 
That said, the limitation of having to semi-manually bias means I've focused down my tube rolling somewhat.
 
With the Ember (which is still in front of me...), I can't resist rolling a tube or two every night.

Well I noticed a few days ago you were doing comparisons and I didn't want to say my own preferences until you had had a chance to do your own, but between the Horizon and Ember, I also prefer the Horizon, excellent though the Ember is. I can't quantify why, but the sound is just more euphonic and very natural-I know that sounds so vague, but the English language limits me explaining any better. There is a German word  'innigkeit' which gets close to what I mean-a kind of deep incandescence, an intimate warmth, emanating from the Horizon.
Problem is it's impossible to access the bias screws of the Horizon with the dual single octal adapter in place which is such a pain as it means taking the top plate off and on each time you check the bias.
Like you I find it's such addictive fun to tube roll Ember though. I wake up each morning thinking only about which tubes to roll-sad really, but who cares, especially on a Saturday morning.

 

 

[HOWIE13]

  Interesting to hear you folks are talkin' about the Elise. The first time I mentioned it some of you seemed put off at the idea of a competing amp. Anyway after months of reading thousands of posts all with unequivocally amazing results I took a leap and ordered it on blind faith. Later this month when I get mine, I plan to do a comparison between it and the Zana Deux (by memory anyway), and of course the Ember. But I take it you guys would be offended if I post that on this thread? So maybe I'll just send the link to it. BTW the Elise thread has slowed down a lot and is now easier to follow, if you'd like.
 
I more/less disagree with the need for precisely matched tubes. Slight differences like fin shape, tiny chipped off bits, etc. shouldn't alter the sound very dramatically if at all. I understand how a matched pair would give you a better idea of how it effects the sound, but the picture you get from a slightly mismatched pair really won't differ too greatly from a perfectly matched pair. Some people even mix & match completely different brands and occasionally different voltages (careful with this one) within the same dual pair and get great results.
 
Anyway the reason I made such an effort to compare the Visseaux to the Zenith 6J5's yesterday was in effort to see if we can outdo what is considered the king for the Ember, with the Zenith as one that is extremely comparable... Day two with the Zenith and I'm happy enough to have not switched back to the Visseaux yet.
 
PS- I'm not saying it's better (yet), just a different flavor

I would be most interested with the comparison of amps-doesn't bother me where it's posted really.
Matching tubes is interesting and I tend not to look too much at the internal construction as long as they are reasonably similar, like shape, round or flat plate, maybe the getter, and reasonably matched for date.
I have identical looking tubes which have wide variations in cathode emission and amplification factors and which are poorly matched channel wise, yet tubes which are not completely identical, which are perfectly matched electrically and are perfectly balanced.
The proof is, as always, with the ears and not the eyes.

 

[nwavesailor]

 
 
Quote:

  I would be most interested with the comparison of amps-doesn't bother me where it's posted really.
 
I would welcome your comparison between the amps as well, DecentLevi!
 
as long as they are reasonably similar, like shape, round or flat plate, maybe the getter, and reasonably matched for date.
 
Yep! In a perfect 'tube' world, identical month (or even week) of production and internal components as close to identical as possible would be ideal.
 
The proof is, as always, with the ears and not the eyes.
 
My ears are not 'golden' so my brain questions  what I am hearing 

using somewhat different  tubes L and R. We don't hear with our eyes but they do play a part...........at least for me............or we would all be chasing black metal 6J5's, not cool looking coke bottle 6J5G's!

 

[Luckbad]

  Well I noticed a few days ago you were doing comparisons and I didn't want to say my own preferences until you had had a chance to do your own, but between the Horizon and Ember, I also prefer the Horizon, excellent though the Ember is. I can't quantify why, but the sound is just more euphonic and very natural-I know that sounds so vague, but the English language limits me explaining any better. There is a German word  'innigkeit' which gets close to what I mean-a kind of deep incandescence, an intimate warmth, emanating from the Horizon.
Problem is it's impossible to access the bias screws of the Horizon with the dual single octal adapter in place which is such a pain as it means taking the top plate off and on each time you check the bias.
Like you I find it's such addictive fun to tube roll Ember though. I wake up each morning thinking only about which tubes to roll-sad really, but who cares, especially on a Saturday morning.

 

 
Thanks for holding back your impressions. Innigkeit is a great word! Je ne sais quoi is another way to describe why I prefer the Horizon and Sunrise to the Ember.
 
Frankly, it's like trying to describe to someone why I prefer R/2R dac chips to Delta-Sigma, though it's a less pronounced difference.
 
Perhaps a better way is to describe why I prefer non-oversampled (NOS) R/2R dacs to oversampled R/2R dacs.
 
Concinnity is another ridiculous word that nobody uses.
 
A natural euphony, musical elegance, organic timbre, romantic delicacy.
 
The Ember comes close and is much more convenient with its auto-bias and ability to be used with pretty much any headphone in existence.
 
But something about the harmonious musicality of the Horizon and Sunrise draws me to their sound. If I have the Ember and either one of the other amps sitting next to each other (like I do right now), I always use the non-Ember option.
 
If I didn't have the other two, I'd be perfectly content with the Ember.
 
Everything on the Horizon/Sunrise is just slightly more effortless, slightly more immersive, slightly more poignant intimacy of feeling. 

 

[HOWIE13]

My eyes are not an issue because I close them,(honestly I do) 

 
Quote:

 

 

[HOWIE13]

   
Thanks for holding back your impressions. Innigkeit is a great word! Je ne sais quoi is another way to describe why I prefer the Horizon and Sunrise to the Ember.
 
Frankly, it's like trying to describe to someone why I prefer R/2R dac chips to Delta-Sigma, though it's a less pronounced difference.
 
Perhaps a better way is to describe why I prefer non-oversampled (NOS) R/2R dacs to oversampled R/2R dacs.
 
Concinnity is another ridiculous word that nobody uses.
 
A natural euphony, musical elegance, organic timbre, romantic delicacy.
 
The Ember comes close and is much more convenient with its auto-bias and ability to be used with pretty much any headphone in existence.
 
But something about the harmonious musicality of the Horizon and Sunrise draws me to their sound. If I have the Ember and either one of the other amps sitting next to each other (like I do right now), I always use the non-Ember option.
 
If I didn't have the other two, I'd be perfectly content with the Ember.
 
Everything on the Horizon/Sunrise is just slightly more effortless, slightly more immersive, slightly more poignant intimacy of feeling. 

How right you are about R/2R DAC's too.

 

[mandrake50]

This may be off topic, but I am not sure where else to ask. Several people seem to use the term "Horizon/Sunrise" when comparing to the Ember.
I just got an Ember a week or so ago. I have been listening to it pretty much exclusively. I also have two Sunrise III amps. One I often use at work, the other for a bedroom setup. I too limit tube rolling because of the extra steps of setting the bias. I have considered picking up a Horizon to check out. The question is, are the Horizon and Sunrise really so similar that they can be considered as a single group. In other words, would it be worth picking up a Horizon when I have a couple of Sunrise IIIs already?

 

[Luckbad]

This may be off topic, but I am not sure where else to ask. Several people seem to use the term "Horizon/Sunrise" when comparing to the Ember.
I just got an Ember a week or so ago. I have been listening to it pretty much exclusively. I also have two Sunrise III amps. One I often use at work, the other for a bedroom setup. I too limit tube rolling because of the extra steps of setting the bias. I have considered picking up a Horizon to check out. The question is, are the Horizon and Sunrise really so similar that they can be considered as a single group. In other words, would it be worth picking up a Horizon when I have a couple of Sunrise IIIs already?

They're the same PCB but the Horizon has more robust parts and a higher impedance it's intended for.

The answer is that it depends on your headphones. If you have 300 Ohm+ cans the Horizon with the Supercharger option is slightly better than the Sunrise.

In reality they sound almost exactly the same.

 

[mandrake50]

They're the same PCB but the Horizon has more robust parts and a higher impedance it's intended for.

The answer is that it depends on your headphones. If you have 300 Ohm+ cans the Horizon with the Supercharger option is slightly better than the Sunrise.

In reality they sound almost exactly the same.

Thanks for that. A reminder of what I read on the Garage 1217 site a while ago. That is what I get for writing before really thinking.
I do have the Senn HD 580, 600, and 650. But the Sunrise does fine with those for my use. I more often use the H10 or Liquid Carbon with those anyway.
ATM I am pretty happy spending time with the Ember and Visseaux tubes. I do really like the ease with which I can roll tubes on the Ember.
When I have time I want to plug the dual 6J5 tubes into the Sunrise III and check out the differences between the amps. I do struggle with doing comparisons between tubes due to the time it takes to swap them out and my precise audio memory being so short term. Much more so when trying to swap, re-bias, and match levels.

 

[Luckbad]

Thanks for that. A reminder of what I read on the Garage 1217 site a while ago. That is what I get for writing before really thinking.
I do have the Senn HD 580, 600, and 650. But the Sunrise does fine with those for my use. I more often use the H10 or Liquid Carbon with those anyway.
ATM I am pretty happy spending time with the Ember and Visseaux tubes. I do really like the ease with which I can roll tubes on the Ember.
When I have time I want to plug the dual 6J5 tubes into the Sunrise III and check out the differences between the amps. I do struggle with doing comparisons between tubes due to the time it takes to swap them out and my precise audio memory being so short term. Much more so when trying to swap, re-bias, and match levels.

 
I hear ya. I use the Ember for quick changes and deciphering differences between tubes.
 
Once I narrow it down a bit, I use the Sunrise or Horizon to find longer term listening impressions.
 
Now that I've arrived at some preferred tubes, it's time to either send the Ember home or sell it to someone in need.

 

[nwavesailor]

   
   
Now that I've arrived at some preferred tubes, it's time to either send the Ember home or sell it to someone in need.
 
Where is the Ember's 'home'???

 

[Luckbad]

The Ember's "home" is at Garage1217. I can still return it because I just got it a couple weeks ago.