[ThanatosVI]

that is a more costly option as i'd replace all. Right to the 150s? haha
I'm very happy that i don't need more power that the 150s would bring. Honestly i think i might have been able to get away with the 300s (or even the 200s)

I will go for the 300, basically same Performance for headphones.

Likely will add the 150s as well, as the 300 has only 4 instead of 8.

 

[Zurv]

I will go for the 300, basically same Performance for headphones.

Likely will add the 150s as well, as the 300 has only 4 instead of 8.

Are you planning to use them for speakers too? It would be a little crazy to just use them for headphones. (But this site is full of crazy people tho ^_^ )

 

[ThanatosVI]

Are you planning to use them for speakers too? It would be a little crazy to just use them for headphones. (But this site is full of crazy people tho ^_^ )

Headphones only, it's still way cheaper than the Woo Audio WA 33 that I aimed for earlier.

 

[Zurv]

Let the rolling start.
(PSA, rolling is costly and never ending. Also, what works for me and my tastes, and more importantly, my gear, might not work for you.)

NOS RCA Black pate 12AU7 (1960s)

This is not super ideal as i don't fully have a handle on what the stock tubes sound like. But i had never planned to used them. Brimar CV4003s are coming next week.

These will be used in the gain stage (front two) which has the biggest impact.

Question, what happens if you end up with mutli pairs of tubes that you've been testing in the gain slots?
Yes, can you still use then in the driver stage (the other 6 tubes.)
That said, you'll watch to match them up - In the EVO 400, that would be V9/V14, V10/V13, V11/V12 (these are the gain tubes in the middle.)

Question, If i'm using HT bypass, do the gain stage still have any impact? ie, aren't i bypassing the pre?
Yes they still have an impact. The gain stage is still active with you're using the HT bypass, it just circumvents the volume control and that input is set to unity gain.


Here is the PL compared to the RCA.
I thought they might be the same-ish.. but they are not.
(the two on the right are PL 12AU7)
They look like el-cheapo Sino 12AU7 tubes. ugh..

 

[Zurv]

FYI, all tubes in PL units are Shuguang/Sino. both driver/gain 12AU7 and power EL34 tubes.

I confirmed it with their support.

To help a search engine "what tubes do PrimaLuna use?"

Hey!? maybe the best is also the cheapest... maybe.. but i doubt it.

 

[Zurv]

Maybe also try rolling the el34 to kt150s

Damn you and your dark seeded suggestion!
KT150 ordered.
I think it need it. I do like clean, tight and airy sounding music... but I've stacked everything for it and ... well... too much of a good thing. The KT150 will hopefully add some meat on the bones. (and look cool!)
In the end i'll have replaced all the Chinese tubes out.
TungSol KT150 x 8
RCA 12UA7 blackplate (1960s) x 2 (sadly, they don't light up.)
Brimar CV4003 12UA7 (1960s) x 4

 

[ThanatosVI]

Damn you and your dark seeded suggestion!
KT150 ordered.
I think it need it. I do like clean, tight and airy sounding music... but I've stacked everything for it and ... well... too much of a good thing. The KT150 will hopefully add some meat on the bones. (and look cool!)
In the end i'll have replaced all the Chinese tubes out.
TungSol KT150 x 8
RCA 12UA7 blackplate (1960s) x 2 (sadly, they don't light up.)
Brimar CV4003 12UA7 (1960s) x 4

Please tell me how you like Them and if the tube cover still fits (it didn't fit with the previous HP Modell, when using 150s)

However soundwise the kt150s lift it up quite a bit, from what I've heard

 

[340519]

Hey guys,

I was shocked that there is no dedicated thread for primaluna amps here.
I know that they are basically speaker amps, but the way their headphone out is implemented makes them also amazing headphone amplifiers.

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/integrated-amplifiers

Please share your experiences with them.
The Evo 300 and 400 basically superseded the old HP versions.

They make fabulous gear.

 

[Strayngs]

Here is a review of the Primaluna Evo 300 Integrated I posted awhile back.

I had broken the yokes on my Kennerton Thridi and I have been waiting for them to be sent to me from Russia because I wanted them to be included in my evaluation. I received the yokes on Thursday and had a weekend to evaluate. Now I have time to spell out my thoughts on this beautiful amp.

I was nervous about the purchase of my Primaluna because I sold my Wells Audio Milo to fund the purchase. The Wells Audio famously has a big power output with pleanty of power for my Audeze LCD-4. I once had a ampsandsound SE-84 which was magical, dead quiet and packed a big punch for what it was, but when I had plans to purchase the LCD4. 1/ I needed to sell it to buy the LCD-4 and 2/ I also knew that it would not be enough power to drive it. And so I purchased the Milo shortly there after. My fear is would the Primaluna have enough power.

The Milo is a respectable amp, but I had a magical amp in the ampsandsound and for 6 months I listened to what I considered a good sound, but it didnt have that 3d, remarkably separated sound that I had grown to love. I decided that I needed to get a tube amp again.

I went to the RMAF in September of last year where I first saw the Primaluna in person. I thought to myself that this might be the most beautiful tube amp that I have ever scene. I didnt look any further because I had purchased the Milo and I was concentrating on getting a DAC at the show. I also assumed that the Primaluna was for speakers and I have an all headphone setup.

When I decided to hunt for a tube amp, I discovered the Primaluna and found that they indeed do power headphones. The problem is that there isnt any published specs for the Evo series. I called Upscale Audio with the intent of maybe getting the Dialogue Premium HP as the specs are there and looked very promising that they would power my headphones well. I spoke with a guy named Evan and he told me that the Dialogue Premium HP has had some problems in headphone mode where it can lose transformers and that the Evo series had fixed this problem. I asked about the power output of the 300 as it is not specified. He told me that at 200 ohms the Evo 300 has a 1.5w output. I pulled the trigger.

The reason for this long introduction is that I am not sure that the power stated to me is indeed this 1.5w at 200 ohms. I acquired a used Trafomatic Head 2 the same week that I recieved the Primaluna. The Head 2 does specify that it drives 2w at 50 ohms. Theoretically, the Primaluna should be more powerful. Using the tape out from the Primaluna to the Trafomatic so that the 2 amps receive the same DAC signal, the Primaluna does need to be at a higher volume position to get the same volume out of my headphones as the Trafomatic. I dont have the equipment or know how to test the exact output, but I am doubting the claimed Evo output told to me in an email from Upscale Audio. This might annoy me, however, the LCD-4 does not seem to be underpowered at all. I am happy with the sound and that is all that counts. But I do believe that those purchasing this amp and wanted to use my thoughts as a tool in deciding needed to know this side note.

Now the comparison of sound. First of all in comparison to the Milo, it is no contest. Primaluna stomps the Milo to the ground and rubs its face in the mud. The Milo is dull and not exciting at all. It does have a warm sound for solid state but I didnt have a lot of wow moments even in my $4000 headphones. My Pathos Aurium sounded superior imo.

I am going to concentrate this comparison on the Trafomatic and the Primaluna as the Milo just couldnt keep up.

The Trafomatic is sooo quiet. Dead silent with all my headphones that I compared Including the LCD-4 but also with my Kennerton Thridi, Klipsh HP-3 and the Hylands Jupiter 1 that I have on loan. The Bass is good. Well polished and very tight. Very lovely on all the headphones. The mids are more present and upfront than the Evo. It is very fast, dynamic with great PRAT. Probably the best I have ever heard in a tube amp. It honestly does not feel like a tube amp. The treble is not offensive. I would describe this amp as very neutral. It really is a great amp. Is it better than the Primaluna? Well no...it is just different. I count myself lucky to have 2 amps of this quality that have such a different sound signature.

The Primaluna needed to be burned in. No doubt about it. It was a little dry and not as exciting as I had hoped out of the box. I played unattended about 4 hours a night for 2 weeks to help break it in and I had 2 days of maybe 8 hours of play which is when I actually listed to the music during this time.

The sound warmed up. The treble tamed down and the bass bloomed. The sonic quality that I loved about my ampsandsound is found in the Primaluna. It definately sounds like a tubeamp. It is more polite that the Trafomatic but in a authorative way. The bass is actually better in the Evo but it is not overpowering in any way. The sound stage and imaging is definately better in the Primaluna. The mids are further away than the Head 2 but it helps with the music separation. The instruments are separated as much as you would want without making the music sound artificial. The sound comes from everywhere in my head. The Trafomatic is intimate by comparison. The treble is a little more polite than the Trafomatic. This is especially true in triode mode. I believe that this is why the Trafomatic has the edge in detail. The only headphone that I did not like in the Primaluna was the Hylands (which is not mine anyways). I have never been a big fan of my Klipsh (but my wife loves the way they look and that is why I have them) but they actually sound really, really good in the Evo. By far the best I have heard them. I actually am beginning to love them too.

Triode vs Ultra Linear is cool too. I find myself swiching almost every song to hear the difference and decide which way I want to hear the given song. Triode makes the tube sound come out more polite. Ultra Linear gives that edge back to the music. It is more aggressive. I find myself in Ultra Linear about 70 percent of the time.

In closing the Primaluna is a great tube amp that does justify the price even as "just" a headphone amp. I am happy with my purchase.

 

[Strayngs]

I couldn't resist and eventually broke down and got speakers. My Tannoy Autograph Mini sound amazing on the EVO300I.

 

[Zurv]

I couldn't resist and eventually broke down and got speakers. My Tannoy Autograph Mini sound amazing on the EVO300I.

going to play with the tubes?
The ones with the biggest impact are just the two front 12AU7s

 

[Strayngs]

going to play with the tubes?
The ones with the biggest impact are just the two front 12AU7s

I may. I wanted to listen to stock for several months before I ventured there.

 

[Zurv]

Smart man!
i‘m thinking I like the stock gain tube vs these 1960 RCAs... maybe..
grrr.. I need my dac to come in. Testing with unknown quality of dac in my denon x8500h (or “ok” dac in the bluesound) isn’t great. Both kinda suck.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Smart man!
i‘m thinking I like the stock gain tube vs these 1960 RCAs... maybe..
grrr.. I need my dac to come in. Testing with unknown quality of dac in my denon x8500h (or “ok” dac in the bluesound) isn’t great. Both kinda suck.

Primaluna stock tubes are said to be quite good though

 

[Zurv]

Update: Most of the problem was from a fan plugged into the same wall jack.

ugh.. i was on a mission yesterday. Using it in HT i notice some noise from the speakers when there was no content. That can some times be normal and one wouldn't hear it unless your ear was next to the speaker. (but it still bugged me.)
Is it some interference? hrmm.. it is on all inputs, even with nothing connected, but it x2 as loud on HT. (HT is worse because it seems it is locked at a high volume, other inputs at high volume have the same noise.) I could hear that noise with headphones... so PROBLEM!
I removed all connections from the PL other than the headphones and speakers. Still noise. Only headphones.. still noise. Shut everything else using the power circuit. Still...
I move the unit to another wall jack. Better (not perfect, but you'd have to be LOOKING for noise and only hear it with nothing else one)
What was the problem? Snake oil
We all tell ourselves i'm not going to fall for dumb with audio. Even though some stuff make no sense .. and we know this. (like anything with digital connections, if both sides are digital - and would have buffers, the quality of the cable (unless broken) has zero impact.)
This snake oil was a power cable. 2m AudioQuest Monsoon AC Power. (you can look up the price.. i can't show my shame here.)
Whatever unneeded stuff that cable was doing added interference. But after putting it back it the spot it was before and using the cable the came with the PL, the buzz/bum was gone. Directly to the wall, gone. From the Niagara, gone. Everything turn on and inputs connected... gone. My guess is the problem was the "Ground Noise Dissipation Technology" - *sigh* It is a power cable (and likely not even UL certified). AC is already cleaned up by the Niagara. That is also unneeded too, because we don't use AC. Well built equipment, when converting AC to DC cleans up that noise.
(But this isn't the first time AQ cables screwed me. I had some RCA interconnects .. so extra much noise.)